Organizing Principles that Support ADHD
This week on the show we dive into the key principles for getting and staying organized when you have ADHD, following up on our conversation last week about decluttering spaces.
We really want to drive home that organization is more about function than perfection. The whole point is being able to find what you need when you need it. We advise against buying organizing products without a clear purpose, because let's face it, they can just become more clutter.
Making things easy to access and see is super important. We recommend using shelves, racks, and step stools to make the most of your vertical space. Try not to overstuff your bins, so they stay easy to pull out. Creative solutions like hooks and open bins can work wonders for those of us with ADHD.
Remember, organizing is an ongoing process. Start small, focus on function over form, and create systems that work with your natural habits and tendencies – that's how you make them stick. As we like to say, for everything, there is a place … and for every place, there is a purpose.
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Pete Wright:
Hello, everybody, and welcome to Taking Control: The ADHD Podcast on TruStory FM. I'm Pete Wright. And I'm here with Nikki Kinzer.
Nikki Kinzer:
Hello, everyone. Hello, Pete Wright.
Pete Wright:
Nikki Kinzer, ADHD coach, organizer and Mad Men aficionado.
Nikki Kinzer:
I am at this moment. Re-watching it.
Pete Wright:
At this very moment. Yeah. Outstanding. We've been talking in the member pre-show. If you were members over at Patreon, you would have listened to an extraordinary pre-show about home hygiene, I think that's safe to say, entertainment and pets, cats. Yeah. It was delightful. We would love to have you over there. And that's what you get when you hang out with us at patreon.com/theadhdpodcast. That is the very best way to support this show is to throw a few bucks a month our way. It supports the show. It supports the team who works on the show. And it gets you into our Discord community server at the top secret levels so you can see all the activity.
Now, you don't have to jump in right at the Patreon level. You can jump in for free. Just visit takecontroladhd.com/discord and you'll get the free channels. The best way to hook up with us though is definitely at that Patreon level and you get your own podcast feed of all the member versions of all the stuff that we do. You get early access to all of the episodes and you get access to... At some levels you get to join us, me and Nikki, for sordid and sundry events throughout the month, like coaching and tech talks, Coffee with Pete. And we try to do a lot of fun stuff, and we love the community so much. We thank you so much for your support. Nikki, today, organizing principles. Principled organizing. Which is it? I guess we'll never know. Where would you like to start today?
Nikki Kinzer:
Well, I want to do a little bit of a summary of what we did last week because this is a series. And so-
Pete Wright:
Yes. This is part two.
Nikki Kinzer:
This is part two. And last week we covered sorting, which was decluttering your spaces. And in summary, what we were doing there is we were taking a inventory of what you have in your home in different spaces and deciding what's going to stay, what's going to leave. And so that's the very first step, is we don't want to be thinking too much about anything except for making those decisions. And now we are in step two, which is the actual organizing step. So now we've got to figure out where we are going to place the items that we are keeping. Before I get into organizing principles with ADHD, I just want to say for anyone who is following this series and was actually inspired to do something maybe over the time that they listened to the first, to the second episode, be very proud of yourself. Good job because-
Pete Wright:
Bet you're still here.
Nikki Kinzer:
Well, yeah, because that first step, you can't do any of the other steps without that first step, and that's a big deal. So I definitely want to acknowledge that it's hard to let things go. And if you're listening to this, then good job.
Pete Wright:
Good job.
Nikki Kinzer:
Got a pat on the back.
Pete Wright:
It's hard, but it gets a little bit addictive, letting things go, I think, for me.
Nikki Kinzer:
I think it does too, just because-
Pete Wright:
Once you get over the hump, once you break the seal, it's like, "Oh." You can start being really hard on past self's efforts to collect items, and it's easy to just let it go.
Nikki Kinzer:
Well, because it brings this clarity. It brings this clarity of, "Oh, my gosh. I can see the floor. I can see this shelf. I can see that this is where this book is." So yeah, it's that type of results. Those results just really feel good. And so we need to now figure out what do we do with this, because we want to get to stage three, which is maintaining, and you can't maintain a space without organizing the space first.
Pete Wright:
But I do like the idea that we're coming to this with a set of principles. This is not necessarily a how-to. It's kind of a how-to, but really it's like, "Here are a set of guidelines. And if you follow the guidelines, the results will be organizing. You'll be able to organize, as long as you follow the guidelines, the principles." And I think that's really important. And one of my favorite things is the School of Fish rules, like the School of Fish Guidelines. Fish-
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh, where are you going to talk about that, Fish?
Pete Wright:
I don't know, Nikki. I feel like there is a place, and you might learn more about it at takecontroladhd.com/adhdbook, where you might find information on the book, Unapologetically ADHD, by Nikki Kinzer, Pete Wright. One of the things I talk about in the book is behavior of schooling fish, and the fish have some very, very simple rules. One is don't touch one another. One is don't stay very far away from one another. And one is if one turns, you should also turn. And all of those things work together. And once you realize that, it's just those three simple, little rules that keep an entire school of fish together.
Nikki Kinzer:
Amazing.
Pete Wright:
Always stay as close as you can to the center. Don't stay too far apart. And don't get too close. And then they don't touch each other and they can find food and they are alert when danger comes. It's the same thing weirdly with organizing principles. If you have this ideal of what something should look like, then you're not going to get there and you're not going to be able to maintain it, but if you have a set of behaviors, those behaviors will demonstrate to you repeatedly how you can maintain an organized lifestyle.
Nikki Kinzer:
And it's so true. And I never really thought of these as being behaviors, but they really are. So I'm glad you bring that up because it really truly is. So good job, Pete Wright.
Pete Wright:
Well, thank you.
Nikki Kinzer:
All right. So the intention here is exactly what he's saying, is that we are looking... First of all, when we're organizing our spaces, especially when you have ADHD, it is not about perfection and it's not about the prettiness, I don't know if that's a word, the pretty part of organizing that you see in magazines and on Pinterest and all of that. Labels are good, we'll talk about labels, but it doesn't have to look a certain way. So it's all about function. We want to make sure you can find what you need when you need it. And when there is less stuff in your home, in your spaces, whatever you're organizing, this does become easier to achieve. I mean, it just is. So we're not minimalists by any means, but it is true that when you have less, it is easier to maintain and to find things.
So these set of behaviors, first of all, is organizing products. We've talked about this a lot when we've talked about organizing, but there is a very much a standard rule if you're working in spaces to not buy anything unless you know the purpose of what you are going to use it for. Otherwise, they will become dumping grounds for more clutter and miscellaneous stuff. And I know this by experience, because I get excited when I go to a store and I see that these things are on sale. My husband's done it before, where I don't know what we're going to use them for, but they were on sale, it was such a good thing. And then he brings all this stuff home. We all are guilty of it, but we're also guilty of just putting a bunch of stuff in random boxes and not doing anything with it. And that might be fine until you have to move, and then it sucks because now you have to deal with it at some point. So definitely don't buy anything unless you know the purpose and know what you're going to use it for.
Pete Wright:
What if my purpose is I collect organizing paraphernalia?
Nikki Kinzer:
Well, let's do that in an organized way, I suppose. Good point, but yeah, that's a whole 'nother ball game that we're talking about there. So any other questions about organizing products that you're going to throw at me, Pete?
Pete Wright:
Yeah. No. No. I feel like, yeah, my... Because I do relate. I was once... I had some maladaptive behavior around boxes and bins. And I'm glad to be done with that.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. Yeah. It's fun. They're fun, until they've just become dumping grounds. So the other behavior that I think is really important around organizing with ADHD is we want things to be accessible for you. We want things to be easy to reach and easy to see. So these next two principles really work together. We want... Out of sight is out of mind. So if you don't see it, you forget that it's there. If it's hard to reach, you're not going to probably get it or you're definitely not going to put it back. So you may get it and then it's just going to sit there. So let's talk about the first one, making things accessible. So again, the things you use most, we want to have the easiest places for them to get and to put back. We definitely want to think about vertical space. Shelves and racks are great friends, because then it avoids stacking on top of each other. You actually have a little bit of divider there.
Pete Wright:
I would just want to throw in shelves and racks and step stools.
Nikki Kinzer:
And step stools, yes, are important.
Pete Wright:
They all go together.
Nikki Kinzer:
They all go together.
Pete Wright:
You've got to have some sort of a step stool if you are working on vertical space.
Nikki Kinzer:
Absolutely. We don't want to stuff bins too much because that makes them heavy. We'll get them down, but we won't put them back up. So we want, again, things that we can easily get into. We can be creative. So one of the things that I think is great about organizing with ADHD is that it doesn't have to be just boxes and bins. You can use baskets. You could use laundry baskets. You can hook things. I remember when I was-
Pete Wright:
A hook.
Nikki Kinzer:
Hooks. I mean, I had a client who hated hanging anything up. So we just ended up putting a bunch of hooks in the room, so it was a lot easier to just put it on a hook. I had a client who was not... This was an ADHD client that I was working with, but she showed me a way that she was organizing her clothes and it was just so simple. It was just these open bins and then she would write shirts and then she would just throw her shirts in there. It wasn't like they were nice and tidy, but at least she knew where all the shirts were.
Pete Wright:
She knew where the shirts were. Right.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. And so it was all very creative. So definitely anything that catches your interest that you think you would use I think are all really good things.
Pete Wright:
I lose today's ADHD drinking game because Steve in our member chat room dropped command hooks before I was able to do so.
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh, dang. Yeah. Yes.
Pete Wright:
I was not able to get command strips in, but command strips and hooks, command hooks, are [inaudible 00:11:53] for sure.
Nikki Kinzer:
Absolutely.
Pete Wright:
But I will say my mother for some years went all in on hooks and drilled a lot of holes in the walls. And because at the time she apparently had things to hang up. And over the years the needs changed and now her house is full of hooks with nothing on them because she doesn't have stuff to hang anymore, so... Be aware of that. You-
Nikki Kinzer:
Because she's ready.
Pete Wright:
She's ready to hang stuff if stuff comes in that needs to be hung.
Nikki Kinzer:
Absolutely. Well.
Pete Wright:
All right.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. I have a couple of examples just to put a vision out there for people when we talk about place items where you use them and can see them. The kitchen and bathroom are really great examples around this. So again, we're looking for easy access. So look at the everyday pots and pans that you use. Are those easy to find? And are they easy to put away? And if you're going to nest them, are they nested in a way that is easy? So we don't want to keep pots and pans out from the cupboard or onto the counter if we can't put them back. So definitely be thinking about that in your kitchen. What are the everyday dishes? Are they easy to put away? So unloading my dishwasher is really simple because everything's pretty laid out. It's pretty simple to see where things go. So when you're thinking about putting things back, think about that.
In the bathroom, one of my favorite things is the basket, the little carrier for everyday grooming and makeup. So I have this... It's a silver basket, and then it has these containers inside the basket. And my makeup is all organized, the brushes and stuff. So all I do is I open or I pick up the basket, put it on my counter, do my makeup, and then I put it back under the counter. It's a very easy thing to do, but it keeps the counter from being cluttered and it's so simple. So it's not something hard. So that's something you could do very easily to keep your bathroom, especially if you have a small bathroom.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, right. And I am a huge fan of sliding bins like that. And that's one of the things my office closet has really benefited from, because of all the gear I have. I've tried to move everything out of plastic drawers and things and just use bins that I can take off a little shelf and put back when I'm done using it, because honestly, it's always easier to get into something from the top than it is from the side. And it just stays more organized. It's much, much better. So big fan of sliding bins that fit on shelves.
Nikki Kinzer:
Absolutely. And this is where labels I think make a huge difference, especially if you do have the bins or the baskets or... Clear bins are better than bins that you can't see. I've always been a fan too of colored bins for holidays. So having green and red for Christmas, if you celebrate Christmas, orange and black for Halloween in November, that's good because that's a visual cue of that's where those things are. And then, like you were saying, the baskets that you can look inside on top makes a huge difference that they don't have lids on them, right?
Pete Wright:
Right. Right.
Nikki Kinzer:
And the labels, I just want to go back to that. I mean, I think that there's so much value to that. And I've seen where some people go overboard and they label everything, but that helps them. So there isn't a rule of how many labels you should use or not use. If it helps you stay organized, then that makes a huge difference.
And then I think this makes sense, but I think we forget that we want to contain like items together, things that are like each other, because then it's easier to find, easier to put back. When I was going through in our pre-show, I was talking about a bonus room that I'm going through right now to get ready for guests to come to our house. And I had found this tape. And it's supposed to be first aid type of tape. And so it was easy for me to find it and know, "Oh, I'm going to put this in the laundry room where the first aid stuff is." And so just keeping those things together. In the organizing the declutter challenge that we did in January, there was this whole joke around how many... I can't say the word. Thermometers.
Pete Wright:
Thermometers.
Nikki Kinzer:
Thermometers. See? I couldn't say it in January either. And now I still can't say it. I have a lot of them.
Pete Wright:
You have a lot of thermometers?
Nikki Kinzer:
Yes. A lot of people get sick at my house. And we're not going to get rid of them because that's the thing about duplicates is that sometimes we want duplicates, sometimes we need to have duplicates because we lose the things. So we have one in our bathroom, and then we have another one in our upstairs bathroom, and then we have another one in the first aid kit. So we want to also organize the way that you think. And again, there's not a hard or fast role that says all of them have to be together.
Pete Wright:
Okay. But let me just throw this one out that-
Nikki Kinzer:
And Steve knows what I'm talking about because he was there. He knows about the thermometers.
Pete Wright:
The thermometers?
Nikki Kinzer:
Thermometers.
Pete Wright:
Yes. So there is... Keeping like items together, that's one thing, but I can hear somebody saying, "But wait a minute. What about my kitchen junk drawer?" The kitchen junk drawer is a great example of organizing not like items but organizing items where the likeness is by space. Like, "I use all of these random things, but I use them all in the kitchen." That's how junk drawers are created.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. I'll take a picture of my junk drawer because this is something I tackled in January during our declutter challenge back then. And we're having another one in July. So we got to throw that out. But I'll take a picture of mine because I did work on that in January. And it is still organized, and that's six months later.
Pete Wright:
Okay. Nice flex.
Nikki Kinzer:
Thank you. Because it is... That is where the organizing container thing works, because I have these sections in the drawer that make a huge difference. And so yeah, there's random stuff in there for sure, but they sure look nice because they're all sectioned in these little squares and rectangles and stuff. So yeah, you can have a drawer that's kind of random, but it doesn't have to look bad. It can still be somewhat sorted.
Pete Wright:
Distinguished. I'm a huge fan of especially junk drawers, putting separators in there, something to help you, even within organizing by space, doing it by purpose. I'm also a huge fan of magnets. Oh, my goodness. And I think I'm a recent convert to magnets. Normally, we have a bunch of magnets on our refrigerator, and it's just like they're holding graduation cards that we want to look at or something like that. But then we started getting kitchen supplies that are magnetizable. Our kitchen meat thermometer has magnets on it, so it's always right by the stove because the refrigerator and the stove are together.
Nikki Kinzer:
That is actually really smart.
Pete Wright:
It's always there and it's so easy to put away. And so the more kind of utensils I can get that are magnetized, the better. I'm a huge fan, huge fan of magnets. Pete's big awakening. Magnets, you all, it's the future. Yeah.
Nikki Kinzer:
Hooks, 3M hooks and magnets, all over his house.
Pete Wright:
3M hooks, All over. Yep. Yep.
Nikki Kinzer:
Actually that's really smart though, because we have three different areas where that meat temperature thing could go and it always gets lost at some point because of that, or broken. They're not real sturdy. Is the one that-
Pete Wright:
They're not real sturdy. The one that we have on the refrigerator hasn't gotten broken because it's not knocking around in drawers. It's not being thrown into places, to the deep, the bowels of the utensil drawer. Yeah. It's very, very handy.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think that that's the key is that you want to place things where you'll find them and what's natural to you. And again, out of sight is out of mind. So it is really important that we keep those most important things front and center in those prime real estate areas of your home. And then everything else can go up on top of shelves, behind, the back of the closet, those kinds of things, because you don't get to them as often or you don't need to use them as often.
The last thing I would say is if you live with other people in your home, definitely have some kind of meeting of the minds of where things are going to go, because a part of staying organized is knowing where to put things back. And if you do this all by yourself and you don't let your spouse or your partner or your roommate know that this is where things go, it's going to be put in the wrong place because they're not going to know. And so I think getting people's buy-in and working together and figuring out what makes the most sense, and depending on what your situation is, if you have young kids versus if you have an adult roommate, that's going to all vary. But I think it is important to have those conversations and do it together and so that everyone's on the same page. So this last line, Pete?
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Nikki Kinzer:
For everything, there is a place. That wasn't-
Pete Wright:
What's the punchline of that?
Nikki Kinzer:
Well, that was take control organizing.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. I know. But then there's a second part. You didn't put the second part.
Nikki Kinzer:
I don't remember the second part.
Pete Wright:
Nikki, I am shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
Nikki Kinzer:
I remember for everything there is a place.
Pete Wright:
And for every place there is a purpose.
Nikki Kinzer:
How did I forget that?
Pete Wright:
I don't know. That was our tagline for the first book that we wrote.
Nikki Kinzer:
Wow. Okay.
Pete Wright:
I know.
Nikki Kinzer:
I'm going to blame that on age. I don't remember things. For everything there is a place, and for everything there is a purpose? Is that what it was?
Pete Wright:
No. For every place there is a purpose.
Nikki Kinzer:
For every place there is a purpose, which makes sense.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. It makes more sense than the other thing. For everything there is a place and for everything there is a purpose.
Nikki Kinzer:
There's a purpose. There's a purpose for everything.
Pete Wright:
Also [inaudible 00:22:49] places and purposes, and places are purposeful too.
Nikki Kinzer:
See? This is why you did that and not me, because I would've had some weird tagline. For everything. For everything.
Pete Wright:
I keep that in my head. I mean, that is a really valuable little aphorism.
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh, it is.
Pete Wright:
Because sometimes your places don't necessarily have things in them, but that's okay because their purpose is to be decluttered. Their entire purpose is not to have things in them, and that's okay too. So I think that assessment of both the things and the places is really important. Yeah.
Nikki Kinzer:
I love that.
Pete Wright:
Okay. So that's part two.
Nikki Kinzer:
All right. Yes.
Pete Wright:
We are finished with part two of our organizing series. Thank you all for hanging out with us. Thank you for listening to the show. We appreciate your time and your attention. So don't forget. If you have something to contribute, head over to our Discord channel, just like all of our wonderful members. And you can find the Discord Show Talk channel right there at by visiting patreon.com/theadhdpodcast. If you join at the deluxe level or better, that's where you get the secret stuff. We would love to have you there. On behalf of Nikki Kinzer, I'm Pete Wright. And we'll see you right back here next week on Taking Control: The ADHD Podcast.
