What It Means to Stay Organized with ADHD
We've reached the end of our 28th season of Taking Control: The ADHD Podcast, and the final part of our 3-part series on organizing and ADHD. In this episode, we discuss the important but often challenging topic of maintaining organization.
As Nikki points out, staying perfectly organized is unrealistic if you actually live in and use your space. Things will inevitably get messier over time. However, she emphasizes that re-organizing a space gets easier each time you do it, because you've already made key decisions about what to keep and where things belong. The frustration of seeing a space get cluttered again is normal, but it's important to reframe negative self-talk that makes you want to just give up on organizing altogether.
We discuss some red flags that indicate when it's time to dedicate a block of time to tidying up a space again - like when you can no longer find important items, have to re-purchase things you already own, or flat surfaces become covered in clutter.
I reflect on the importance of evaluating and revising the "rules" and behaviors around your spaces when you organize. For the system to work long-term, everyone in the household needs a shared understanding of where things belong. We commiserate over the apparently-universal experience of using stairs as a dumping ground for items that need to go to other levels.
Finally, we go over some general guidelines for keeping spaces maintained:
Doing a quick 10-minute tidy-up whenever you can
Purging unused items on a semi-regular basis, like every season
Having dedicated spots for items you frequently set down, like a bowl for your wallet and keys
Considering storage space before making new purchases
While we may not always follow our own great advice, reflecting on these principles can help you feel more in control of your space and your stuff. Here's to progress, not perfection, as we continue to navigate life with ADHD.
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Pete Wright:
Hello everybody, and welcome to Taking Control: The ADHD Podcast on TruStory FM. I'm Pete Wright and I'm here with Nikki Kinzer.
Nikki Kinzer:
Hello everyone. Hello, Pete Wright.
Pete Wright:
Nikki. We have reached the end. We've climbed the mountaintop. We've reached the end of not only our 28th season of this show, but our three-part series on organizing.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yes.
Pete Wright:
And do you have any reflections on the end of the season before we dig into our content proper? 28 seasons.
Nikki Kinzer:
Any reflections? Gosh.
Pete Wright:
Have you learned anything?
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh, I learn things all the time, but I do not have the reflections on me right now at this moment.
Pete Wright:
Well, that's fair.
Nikki Kinzer:
Okay.
Pete Wright:
And I'm a little bit disingenuous when I say that, like I'm lying just to touch because we have put a fourth, sneaky fourth part of this show.
Nikki Kinzer:
I think we did. We are, yes.
Pete Wright:
We are as episode one of season 29, and that's going to be digital decluttering and tackling digital clutter and tabs and all kinds of tech things. I bring that up now because if you have anything that you have on your mind about tackling your own systems and cleaning them up, please let us know. Reach out to the show on Discord or any of our social platforms, Facebook, Instagram, or Pinterest @takecontroladhd. Of course, we would love to see you in Discord, takecontroladhd.com/discord. Visit that link and you'll be whisked over to the general invitation page and log in. And of course, our delightful members who have joined us for our member live pre-show chat and get early access to all of these shows. They know the drill that if you visit patreon.com/theadhdpodcast, you get access to all kinds of behind the scenes stuff, and we would love you to visit that wonderful location on the interweb.
For a few bucks a month, you get access to all kinds of good stuff, but mostly you're supporting this show. If you've been listening to the show for a long time and you've been thinking about, maybe I'll throw a couple bucks to Pete and Nikki and see what this is all about. Now's the time. Patreon supports this podcast, we've got a lot of things going on at Take Control ADHD. It's Nikki's business, but this podcast is subsidized by our listeners, and so we truly, truly support or deeply thank all of those who have jumped in to support the show and join us for deeper conversation and access, so thank you everybody. Patreon.com/theadhdpodcast.
Staying organized. Today, we're talking about maintenance.
Nikki Kinzer:
Ooh, step three, right?
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Nikki Kinzer:
All right, so going to do a summary.
Pete Wright:
Good.
Nikki Kinzer:
Show number one, we talked about sorting, so this was all about decluttering and letting go of things that you don't need, don't love, don't want anymore, keeping what matters most to you. Show number two, is all about organizing the space and putting things back where they make sense to you. And let me see if I get this right. For everything there is a place, and for every place there is a purpose.
Pete Wright:
It's like you wrote it yourself.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah, I didn't, you did.
Pete Wright:
I know, at like 20 years ago.
Nikki Kinzer:
20 years ago, yes. But it still stands true even today.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Nikki Kinzer:
So today we're going to talk about maintenance, which you actually, I think in show number one had a maintenance question.
Pete Wright:
I did. And this is very important. This is important for anybody living with ADHD to recognize, and maybe you will recognize and see a little bit of me in your own life when I tell you that I didn't write it down and I forgot it.
Nikki Kinzer:
Okay. That's all right.
Pete Wright:
Thanks for teasing that up.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah, yeah.
Pete Wright:
Teeing that up, it was really perfect.
Nikki Kinzer:
If it comes back to you, you just let us know.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, maybe I'll be inspired. We should take a break. I'll go listen to that episode and see if I-
Nikki Kinzer:
And see if you remember?
Pete Wright:
If I remember-
Nikki Kinzer:
Right.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. You know what? It happens. It happens to all of us, to the best of us. And that's okay, Pete.
Pete Wright:
I was so excited though.
Nikki Kinzer:
I know you were.
Pete Wright:
I mean, I really... I left it in the edit, I was so excited about it.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yes, yeah.
Pete Wright:
It's gone.
Nikki Kinzer:
It'll come back maybe, and if it doesn't, that's all right.
Pete Wright:
Here's hoping. [inaudible 00:04:25].
Nikki Kinzer:
Hopefully we'll still cover everything that we need to cover.
Pete Wright:
That's right.
Nikki Kinzer:
And really about staying organized. Is it such a thing? I think you only stay organized if you don't live in your house.
Pete Wright:
Okay, thanks everybody.
Nikki Kinzer:
Goodbye.
Pete Wright:
On behalf of Nikki Kinzer, I'm Pete Wright. We'll see you next week.
Nikki Kinzer:
I'm not going to pretend.
Pete Wright:
Everybody move out.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. If you live in your house, it's going to get unorganized because we use our stuff, right? That's why we have it. That's why we decided to keep it is because we use it or we love it or for whatever reason we want it. But it is also incredibly frustrating to spend all of the time sorting and organizing and then seeing that a couple of weeks later, it's back to where you feel like it was when you first started. However, I do want to say this. It gets easier. So it's still frustrating and it's just as frustrating as when you clean your house. You really wish that your house would just stay clean. But it's the same thing with organizing, is because we use our stuff, we don't always put them back and we have to maintain it.
We have to keep paying attention to it. And when I say it gets easier is if you have gone through the process of let's just use one space, not like your whole house, but let's just say you went into your bedroom and you sorted everything and purged everything that you didn't need anymore. You assigned homes for everything and now a couple of weeks later, a month later, your room is a mess again. The thing is, you going and cleaning it up this time is going to take you much less time than it did before, and you'll be surprised at how easy it is because you've already made the decisions, you already know that this is something you want to keep. It really is just about maintaining the space and putting it back, so it's just about spending the time to put it back.
Pete Wright:
Okay, so here's the thing, and who knows, this may have been what I was thinking about in show one.
Nikki Kinzer:
Sure.
Pete Wright:
Everything I say today may have been what I was thinking about in show one.
Nikki Kinzer:
We'll never know.
Pete Wright:
We'll never know. When I see a space that is cluttered and I muster the intestinal fortitude to tackle it, and clean it, and organize it, and then I let it go again, right? I may cognitively, intellectually know that it would be easier the second time, easier the third time, even easier the fourth time. But what my brain does instead is it says, oh, well you've failed organizing that thing. You better just let it go. It's never going to be organized. You're never going to find what you need, when you need it. Apparently the purpose of that place is to just be disorganized. And I think that's a function of the ADHD lizard brain that is just like, I'm going to let myself go blind to that thing.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. Well, and that's where I want us to, for the people that are listening to this, really listen to this reframe how you think about that because it's not true. You are talking about a limiting belief and something that you think is true, but it really isn't. This space, if you want it to be organized, it can be organized. But it doesn't have to be this picture perfect organization either, like it can be on your own terms. And so again, we go back to function. Can you find what you need, when you need it? Is it easy to get to? Is it easy to find? Is it not out of sight? It's in front of you. So we really want to challenge when that lizard mind starts to come because it's not true, and you can do it. You can get back on track.
Pete Wright:
Well, there's a corollary to that, which is, and I think we had a comment two shows ago about this, which was what if... That relates to this, I think. I have a cluttered space, and one of the things that I use often is in that cluttered space, even though it doesn't necessarily belong there, and yet I have trained myself that that's where that thing goes. So I can always find what I need, if it's there in a pile of whatever, old clothes to donate that I've never done anything with, but suddenly my meat thermometer is in there, I'll always go back and find it. And so that feels like I'm doing a disservice to the idea of my brain aspiring to be more organized.
Nikki Kinzer:
I think you are being organized when you know where you can find it, so who cares where that is.
Pete Wright:
Good. Okay, that's good. The only problem is now I can never declutter that space of anything else because I'll lose the meat thermometer.
Nikki Kinzer:
Well, that's not true either. That's a limiting belief.
Pete Wright:
Okay. All right.
Nikki Kinzer:
We just haven't gotten to that part yet.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Nikki Kinzer:
So you may be able to organize that space, but still keep the meat thermometer. Gosh, you're going to get me on that word.
Pete Wright:
I should probably pick a different item now.
Nikki Kinzer:
I know.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Nikki Kinzer:
But yeah, you can still be organized. I mean, this is what's so important, right? Is that you're doing it on your own terms, how you think, how you behave, and live in your home. So it doesn't matter what it looks like or where it's at, you can still keep it there. No one's going to tell you you need to move it.
Pete Wright:
Even you?
Nikki Kinzer:
Even me, yeah. So there are some red flags though to think about when you are trying to maintain spaces. And you might be thinking, when do I know that I need to do something? Like when do I need to clean it up so that it doesn't get worse, right? So when you know it's time to do something, it's when you can't find the meat thermometer anymore. It's not where you thought it was.
Pete Wright:
Right.
Nikki Kinzer:
That somehow it's been moved and that's your biggest clue. So if I go out into the garage and I'm looking for something and I can't find it, I know that the garage probably needs my attention at some point, it may not be today, but that's a red flag, that I'm not able to find something that I should be able to find, right? That should be easy to find. When you have to repurchase something because you can't find it, that's a red flag that you probably need to maintain and clean up your area. And when we talk about maintain, let me just take two steps back.
Maintenance is certainly around putting things back. And the more you can do that on a regular basis, and we'll talk about a daily cleanup, some of the strategies you can do to maintain your space, that's putting things back on a regular basis. But what I'm talking about with these red flags are like when you really need to go and do something, like have a session with yourself where you're going into this space and actually cleaning it up and spending more time on it.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Nikki Kinzer:
Does that make sense?
Pete Wright:
Dedicated time for organizing.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah, dedicated time.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Nikki Kinzer:
So when you have to repurchase something, and if you can't see the counter or table. If you can't see the surface of something, so if your desk is covered and usually it's not or you don't want it to be, that's a good red flag there that you probably need to be filing some papers. We get a lot of clutter in our island, in our kitchen island. A lot of things will start to accumulate there. And when I see that, I know that, okay, it's time to just kind of clean it up a little bit. And it really, again, I don't want people to fear this because it won't take as long as you think because it's just putting things back that you've already decided where they go.
Pete Wright:
Right, right.
Nikki Kinzer:
So takeaways here is if you catch the red flag sooner than later, there will be less to do, it will be less overwhelming there. We want that focus time to clean up and put away, which we just talked about, that dedicated time to spend in that area. It's not going to take you as long as you think, promise. Well, I shouldn't promise, because sometimes it might take a long time.
Pete Wright:
It might take exactly as long as you think or more.
Nikki Kinzer:
It might, yeah.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Nikki Kinzer:
So let me rephrase that. I don't want to promise it, but I want to encourage you not to fear it. Because you aren't making as many decisions and it's not as draining as the first two steps can be, and make it fun because it is worth having that clarity back. So watch Mad Men, that's what I did. I spent the whole day cleaning up our bonus room for company and I watched a TV show the entire time that I did it so that it made it more entertaining and more fun. Have your music playing, do it with other people. I mean, there's a lot of different things that you can do to make this more engaging, but definitely don't fear it. You can do it. You did it the first time, you can do it now.
Pete Wright:
And I think the idea of maintaining is a good time to revisit the behaviors, right? The guidelines around all of your things and your spaces.
Nikki Kinzer:
Sure.
Pete Wright:
Because we talked last week about the schooling fish model, the very simple little aphorism about the rules that fish follow that keep them together. And I think that's the thing to think about when you are looking at evaluating the clutter in your spaces and being able to reclaim after that initial organizing, to review what were the initial set of behaviors around that space or around that set of things around those items. Do those still hold true? Did they work? Did they break? Is it something you need to revisit in terms of how you think about those things? Not just the fact that it's a cluttered space, because that'll help you the third time you declutter, and the fourth is to internalize the guidelines around those spaces.
Nikki Kinzer:
Absolutely. Yeah, great point. So we do have a few guidelines to follow if you like. The daily cleanup I think is one that definitely will help maintain your space. It's not always realistic, so I want people to be flexible with this. If you don't do it, it doesn't mean you failed. But whenever you do it, is great. And it's not to necessarily finish cleaning up a space, it's just to get it started, so putting a timer on for 10 minutes and just putting away as much stuff as you can in that 10 minutes, you would be surprised at how much that makes a difference in keeping your home decluttered. I think doing a sorting kind of purging regularly makes a difference. And I don't mean like every month. I'm thinking every season, maybe every six months, once a year, maybe before Christmas or before I don't know, tax season is the time you purge everything, like whatever makes sense to you. But decluttering on somewhat of a regular basis makes a difference.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Nikki Kinzer:
And that's where I want people to think about the declutter challenge because at this moment in time, we're offering it two times a year, and so that's every six months, and it's just a great time to do it together, and to do it with other people, and to have those regular scheduled Saturday sessions to do this with other people. So be thinking about how that could fit in and it really does make a difference to do it with other people as well. Another guideline, and we do this with the stairs, but again, none of this stuff happens every single time. I just want to really be sure that the expectations are clear that whenever it happens, it's a good thing. We will put things on the stairs that need to go upstairs, right?
Pete Wright:
Sure.
Nikki Kinzer:
Sometimes they can stay on the stairs for a long time.
Pete Wright:
Yes.
Nikki Kinzer:
And that's just the way it is.
Pete Wright:
And sometimes you start using more stairs.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
For more stuff.
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Pete Wright:
You fill up the stairs.
Nikki Kinzer:
We've had stuff all the way up the stairs. The thought process is that anytime you go upstairs, you're going to take something and bring it with you.
Pete Wright:
Right. That's the behavior.
Nikki Kinzer:
That's the behavior.
Pete Wright:
That's the guideline.
Nikki Kinzer:
That's the guideline.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Nikki Kinzer:
We would love to be able to do that every time, we don't, but when you do, it does make a difference, so it's just something to remember.
Pete Wright:
I want to just poke at that a little bit because I wonder what it is that keeps, because we do the same thing, and I'm sure we're not alone, that people use their stairs on a two-story home as staging grounds to get things upstairs.
Nikki Kinzer:
Up there. Yup.
Pete Wright:
But what is it about the behavior that makes it hard to just bend down and pick it up and take it upstairs? That whoever put the thing on the stairs might've had an idea about ultimately where that thing goes, but no one else in the home shares that understanding and doesn't want to be responsible for putting it ultimately in the wrong place. And so you end up with this forever staging ground. That's one possible condition.
Nikki Kinzer:
That's one possible. I think for us, everybody knows exactly where the towels should go, and everyone knows that those shoes are not shoes that belong to me or my husband. They belong upstairs to the person who lives up there. And so it's not so much that in my house any way that they don't know where to put it. I think it just becomes like wallpaper. And you are so focused on just going up the stairs that you don't think, you just don't think about the stuff, you don't see it.
Pete Wright:
The stairs. The stairs are an instant toleration. In a while.
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh, completely.
Pete Wright:
Right?
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah, yeah.
Pete Wright:
We talk about toleration, but the toleration is that stuff that you tolerate, you might notice it's there. It slowly but surely goes invisible to you, and eventually you just tolerate it.
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh, yeah. Until mom is like, when are you going to take that stuff upstairs?
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Yeah, right.
Nikki Kinzer:
Right. But yeah, so anyway, that's our stories about stairs. But it could be any room too. I mean, if you have, I'll put together a little pile of something that will be in the kitchen that I know needs to go into my room, being able to think about doing that. It's a guideline of keeping the spaces maintained. That's what we're talking about. These little things that you can do. Pay attention to your clutter hotspots. So I talked about our island, this was definitely an area that gets a lot of stuff. In past homes that I've worked in and talked to clients around.
We would have a bowl or a basket that would collect the wallet, the phone, anything that you're afraid you're going to lose, there's a collection spot for that. It's very easy, it's still kind of decorative, but it's easy to see. And if you really don't want anything in that area, then decorate it, put some flowers in there, put some kind of little, I don't know, vase or something to prevent things from landing on there. So that's just a little trick of if you really don't want anything on here, then make it-
Pete Wright:
Introduce friction.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Nikki Kinzer:
Introduce friction. Exactly. So that it doesn't belong there. But I also don't think that clutter hotspots are bad things. I think it's just something that you pay attention to and then you clean up. That's part of the daily cleanup even, is maybe it's just that one clutter hotspot.
Pete Wright:
But being aware of it is really important. It's like your home's nature trail, like if there is a worn path in the grass, it's because that's where you just learn something about the behavior of people who live in that area. It's the same thing with your clutter hotspots, right? If you notice that things stack up, that's a thing to address. What can you do to, maybe it's introduce friction. Maybe it's just recognize that that is a perfect spot to put things down and you have to go back to a daily cleanup, put on a song, and just know that at the end of the song you're going to be done and race through a little cleanup and put stuff away. Those kinds of things.
Nikki Kinzer:
Absolutely. Yeah.
Pete Wright:
Just recognition.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah, thinking before you buy. So if you look at what is clutter, some people will define it as things that just don't have a place yet. I think clutter can be anything. But clutter that stays clutter is probably an item that just hasn't had its home defined, so we want to think about when you're buying something and you're bringing it into the house, where is it going to go and is it important? And this can actually save you a lot of money too. So if you're on a budget and you're thinking about what you really are, where you want to spend your money, we want to pause. We want to think about, is this something I really want? If it's a big purchase, give yourself some time to think about it before you go back and then later go back. I just laugh because I think this is such good advice. But then I think about how I went to go buy prom shoes with my daughter and came home with a puppy. So I feel a little weird talking about this in all honesty.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Nikki Kinzer:
Because wow, what bigger purchase is a puppy?
Pete Wright:
I did that with a car, so I think actually puppy is bigger in terms of commitment, but I see what you mean. I relate.
Nikki Kinzer:
It's great advice. Whether we live by it or not, I don't know, but it is something to think about. But if you are going to bring it home, like the car probably had a space in the driveway, and boy did we have home in our hearts for that puppy, so we had lots of room, lots of home that he is welcome in. So yeah, it is something to think about like where things are going to go after you purchase them, even when they have four legs and they drive you crazy because they're a puppy. There you go.
Pete Wright:
Amazing. Amazing. This is great. So this is the end of our season.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
Of season 28. We're taking a little break. We will be back after July. So July is our little break and reset month, and so we'll see you kind of early August. Stick with us. We're going to be doing some other fun things in the Discord server for members, patreon.com/theadhdpodcast. Make sure to hang out there. We're going to be very busy, but more news is going to come. Thank you everybody for hanging out with us this whole season. It's been a great season, and we look forward to picking up season 29 in July.
Nikki Kinzer:
Thank you everyone.
Pete Wright:
Thanks for your time and attention. And make sure to head over to the Show Talk channel in our Discord server, and you can join us right there by becoming a supporting member at the deluxe level, or better. On behalf of Nikki Kinzer, I'm Pete Wright. We'll see you right back here next season on Taking Control: The ADHD Podcast.
