2408: FOBO: The Fear of Better Options
Patrick McGinnis, the person behind the term "FOMO", is back. This time, he introduces us to — as he calls it — the evil brother of FOMO that can ruin your life. That thing is FOBO.
The Fear of Better Options.
It's the fear that there is always something better for you out there that holds you back from making the most important decisions of today. It foils any effort you might make toward commitment. It keeps you looking inward, at yourself, behind a veil of selfishness disguised as investigation. It can make you a lousy friend or partner. And it can make you hate yourself.
This week, Nikki and Pete dive into Analysis Paralysis. Here's your background reading from Patrick McGinnis himself.
Here an entry on Michael Crichton's Wikipedia entry on Gell-Mann Amnesia, if you're interested in further reading on the subject.
Episode Transcript
Brought to you by The ADHD Podcast Community on Patreon
Pete Wright: Hello everyone, and welcome to Taking Control: The ADHD Podcast on TruStory FM I'm Pete Wright, and look, it's Nikki Kinzer.
Nikki Kinzer: Hello everyone. Hello, Pete Wright.
Pete Wright: Oh, hi, Nikki. Happy pledge drive month.
Nikki Kinzer: Happy pledge drive month.
Pete Wright: We are still in the heat of our pledge drive month, and we're very excited about it. And I just want to start by saying thank you to everyone who has jumped on board the pledge drive. We are up, we've got seven new members over the last week and we have a whole bunch of people who have upgraded to join the platinum tier, or who have upgraded from their other tier. And so we're super excited to see from one tier to another. Does that even make any sense? Am I still talking? Is this on? Anyway. We're very excited. We've got upgrading members. So people who are in the community and want to get a little bit more out of their membership with us and join us for some new stuff. So I'm really excited. Welcome to everybody, including Stewart and T-Dub and Christopher and Shai and Nicole and Bedisha and Ryan, you all are fantastic for jumping into the community. Thank you so much for that. And, as we record this, if you are members and you are listening to this in your Patreon Podcast feed, your very special Patreon Podcast feed, I will tell you right now as a reminder, Friday, this coming Friday, that'll be the 10th, Friday the 10th, 11th, Friday the 11th of March is Coffee with Pete, our very first inaugural platinum level Coffee with Pete, but anyone can come. And so I'm excited to talk to people about tech and systems and whatever else you want. We could even just talk about coffee, if you want. I'll talk about coffee. That's coming on Friday. So very excited about that. What are you doing to celebrate the high holy days of pledge drive?
Nikki Kinzer: Going to have coffee with Pete. Of course.
Pete Wright: As you do, as you do.
Nikki Kinzer: Yes, yes. And we're going to have Coaching with Nikki at the end of the month. And I have a feeling we might be talking about fear of better options. So I hope that you do not see the better option of not having Coffee with Pete or Coaching with Nikki.
Pete Wright: That's true.
Nikki Kinzer: Pick us. We're good. We're a good option.
Pete Wright: That's right. We are a good option. You know who else is a good option? Our community is a good option. And I will say right now-
Nikki Kinzer: Oh, they're better than us.
Pete Wright: They're better than us. They're why you join. And in fact, we have this happy hour. If you don't know, Supreme members, we have a happy hour every month, the first Wednesday of every month. And it was such a fun experience. It has become such a fun experience that people who hang out for happy hour are actually having their own happy hour, which I guess we're invited to, if we want to go. This is the community Lindsay is actually running, the community happy hour on Wednesday, March 16th at 5:00 PM. US Pacific time. And it is inspired because apparently a whole month is way too long to wait for the next happy hour, come connect and recharge with a listener-led hangout. So I might show up and just not talk, because I like being in the presence of these people so much, that I don't even need to say anything. So I'm very excited about that. That is March 16th for our first listener-led happy hour. May there be more happy hours throughout the year. Today, we are talking about all the other things that you could be doing, or the fear that there are so many other things that you could be doing, a new term that we met, we met this term.
Nikki Kinzer: Actually, it's not even new.
Pete Wright: It's not new. It's new to us.
Nikki Kinzer: Right new to us.
Pete Wright: New to us. FOBO. FOBO.
Nikki Kinzer: FOBO. Fear of better options. It's the brother of FOMO.
Pete Wright: FOMO and FOBO, they're like planets that orbit one another. Oh yeah, yeah, this is good. So we're going to talk all about FOBO and what we've learned about FOBO. So before we start talking about FOBO, you just need to think about how awesome it would be to be part of the ADHD community, just visit patreon.com/theADHDpodcast. And you can join right there and take advantage of our pledge drive and get all the goodies that are coming this month. We love you all. Thank you so much for your consideration. And now let's FOBO. Nikki.
Nikki Kinzer: Yes.
Pete Wright: What is FOBO?
Nikki Kinzer: FOBO, fear of better options. So this came up from our research from the show that we did last week.
Pete Wright: Yeah, we did a show just last week and it was PACT, PACT goals. PACT goals. P-A-C-T goals.
Nikki Kinzer: Right, in the research of PACT goals came this FOBO and we even said, "Hey, that could be a whole episode." And here we are, we're doing an episode on FOBO.
Pete Wright: Isn't that ironic that we would actually find a better option for the show this week called the fear of better options?
Nikki Kinzer: Right. FOBO. I know, it is. We can go on and on with this, right? But this is coined by Patrick McGinness who also did the whole thought around FOMO, which is the fear of missing out. So this Patrick McGinness guy, he has some fears going on.
Pete Wright: He does. He's just scared of a lot.
Nikki Kinzer: Yes. Yes. So what I thought was so interesting is I did some research on FOBO because this was the first time that I really have heard about it. Although it's not... I haven't heard of it in FOBO, but the fear of better options is a ADHD characteristic.
Pete Wright: Yes.
Nikki Kinzer: I mean, this is not a new concept by any means when you talk to somebody who has a hard time making decisions. Because that's really what this is about. And so FOBO is basically what's happening is we are looking at all of our choices. We can't decide on one. We feel like there is probably something better.
Pete Wright: It's practically biblical. This is the curse of riches. There are too many choices and we're overwhelmed by it.
Nikki Kinzer: Overwhelmed. Decision paralysis. I mean you just can't decide.
Pete Wright: Nikki, for people who hear FOBO and think FOMO, can you characterize the difference between the two?
Nikki Kinzer: Absolutely. So this came from one of the articles and I thought it was actually beautifully written. We easily compare ourselves with each other. That's producing the feelings of FOMO. We want to be with other people. We see the same experiences, we want to be where they're at. FOMO is around the fear of missing out. We don't want to miss out on this wonderful opportunity. FOBO is overwhelming ourselves with the choice, and it can be any choice about what we do that day, what we buy, what we eat, it can be anything. And so yeah, the FOMO is kind of the experiences that we're missing. The FOBO is more of like the... well it's experiences too, right?
Pete Wright: Yeah. But I think that's really important because FOMO is about what we're missing doing with other people, it's the Instagram syndrome. It's like, oh, I see what they are doing. And I'm really missing out on that experience. And FOBO is about the, the way I characterize it's about any choice we have to make, whether you're buying a new car, whether you're using a new task system, for me, it's as you know, always task systems. But whatever it is that you have to land on a choice and move forward, it's not being able to move forward and make that choice.
Nikki Kinzer: And what's so interesting around this particular phenomenon, if you want to call it that is decisionmaking, it's a mental process that we have to go through with the executive functions in our brains. And so as this is how it's so directly related to ADHD is decisionmaking is an executive function, ADHD has a lot of challenges around executive functions. So this process of making a decision from planning to managing your impulses, right? Because a lot of times people will make quick decisions and not think it through. These are the things that are happening with ADHD. So FOBO is going to be a part of your ADHD. I mean, it's just so directly related that I know we've talked about it before. That's the thing that just throws me is that, yes, this is a term, but we have talked about this before many times.
Pete Wright: We have talked about the concept, for sure, decision paralysis, I'm sure we have. I just love that it's, I have kind of fallen in love with the acronym. I just think it's a great way to describe this experience that I live with every stinking day. This is one of the daily fights of my ADHD. And it's huge for me.
Nikki Kinzer: Yes. Oh and it is for all of my clients too. I mean, I've seen it in picking out Christmas paper, what kind of wrapping paper do I pick out? What kind of computer do I pick out? What kind of appliance do I choose or even just school supplies. And I mean, there's so many things that you can get hung up on because there are so many options and the internet certainly does not help us with these decisions. And what's interesting about FOBO too, I think is that it can make you feel bad even if you have a really good choice that's in front of you, it makes you feel like, oh my gosh, I'm going to regret something. And a couple of the things that I really pulled out from the research is these were some notes of some things to look out for. Like when do you know that this is happening? Most of us is going to, most of us are going to know when it's happening, but just a couple of flags to be looking for. When you refuse to settle for the options you have in front of you at any given moment, it's not good enough. Three choices is not good enough. I need to keep looking. I need to keep looking. This second one I thought was really interesting. These are not my words. Just want to say it out loud, putting yourself first, without regards to anyone else.
Pete Wright: I read this. I had no idea what it meant.
Nikki Kinzer: Well, this is what it means. And I thought it was really interesting because it's not a very nice way to put this. Because I don't think that having a fear of better options, you wouldn't directly go to, well, how am I putting myself first? But this is where I think the impact is. If you have a broken dishwasher in your house, and you are stuck with making a decision on what dishwasher to buy, the people that are being impacted are the other people that are living in your house.
Pete Wright: Oh, oh.
Nikki Kinzer: Because now they have to wash dishes. They're waiting for you to make a decision. So it's putting your own indecision, your own decision paralysis in front of possible needs of somebody else that is also impacted by this decision being made. Okay. Yeah. So isn't it interesting how we instantly almost think that all of these things are just personal decisions, but really when we start to take a step back, they're impacting other people
Pete Wright: Ripples in a pond again. Yeah. I totally get that. And I see, I absolutely see it. Because my experience with FOBO is generally it's generally my own stuff. I can't decide on a task system. I can't decide on a script writing system. I can't decide on whatever. But really, even those, the people I live with and love have to hear me bitch about it all the time.
Nikki Kinzer: Well, and I got to tell you, if you haven't decided on a task system and you're falling behind on what you're doing for your business-
Pete Wright: You're impacting other people.
Nikki Kinzer: I'm impacted.
Pete Wright: Yeah.
Nikki Kinzer: Right? So it really-
Pete Wright: I have decided Nikki, it's Todoist, it's okay. We're fine.
Nikki Kinzer: Okay. We're good. We're all good, everybody.
Pete Wright: Yeah. We're all good here, yeah.
Nikki Kinzer: But isn't that interesting? I mean, really it isn't, I mean, a lot of times it could be just us, what book to read. All right. That's really only impacting me, but yeah. I think that there are other things that go beyond that. Waiting until you have as many options available as possible before moving forward, that can definitely get us stuck, living in the maybe and operating your life based on I'll get back to that or I'll get back to you on that. I interpret this a little bit different living in the maybe, I'll get back to you on that. I would get that in my own, we need a couch and we've needed couch for a long, long time. And I have gone out and I've looked and I didn't like anything. But getting anything is taking months because nobody has any supplies anywhere in this country, in this world. And so I keep thinking, oh, I'll do it later. I'll do it later. And then I'm thinking, if I had just done it when I said I was going to do it, I would've had a couch by now. I think you can interpret that anyway that you see, but living in the maybe, I mean, it's definitely there.
Pete Wright: Yeah. I get it. I do feel like that too, we have sort of conditioned ourselves in the, I'll get back to you on that as being a thing of pride in protecting our time. But it doesn't take very long to see that as a curse too, in this context, so I get that.
Nikki Kinzer: Right. Because are you really protecting your time or you're just avoiding making a decision?
Pete Wright: That's the razor's edge you're dancing along.
Nikki Kinzer: You bet. You bet. Yeah.
Pete Wright: Our first approach here is to talk about what Patrick McGinness says, what does McGinness recommend as a way to get to the other side of FOBO?
Nikki Kinzer: Yes. And this is really interesting. I would love to have a interview with him sometime. So there are two things that he says, this comes from him. For everyday things, this is what he does. He calls it the ask the watch. So he'll whittle down something to two options. So he's got two choices and then assign each item to a side of his watch. And then he says, "I look down and I see where the second hand is at the moment. And that's the decision that's made." It sounds silly. But if you try it, asking the universe, you will thank me. And I think that what's nice about that is it does kind of simplify things, almost take the decision out of your hands. It's almost like which hand do you want to pick? This is what you get. Behind your back, okay, do you want my left or right hand? And you say, I want the left hand, that's what you get. So it sort of just takes that pressure off of the little thing.
Pete Wright: So I do this, but my interpretation of it is different.
Nikki Kinzer: Oh really? Okay.
Pete Wright: Yeah. When I'm really struggling with something, I think to myself, okay. I'm going to ask the universe, let's say I have a blue couch or a red couch. I think, okay, this is it. I can't decide. So I'm going to flip a coin. Heads is blue couch, tails is red couch. I flip the coin. I catch it. I put it on my hand, as you do. And I look at it. And whatever the answer is, I will immediately know if it's the right answer. And if it's not the right answer, I know that too.
Nikki Kinzer: Oh, you're kind of going off of instinct. Yes, yes.
Pete Wright: Like if it's heads and it's blue couch, and I think, yes, that feels good to me. If it's heads and it's blue couch and I think, oh, I don't feel great about that, then I know it's red couch. And more often than not, just going through the motion, the actual physical sort of kinesthetic action, throwing the coin, catching it, asking, assigning the sides, doing the work of asking the universe actually helps me come to terms with a decision that I don't know how to make intellectually. It does. It sounds silly. I think he's right. It sounds silly to do stuff like that, but you know, you just, you figure it out, in some cases.
Nikki Kinzer: You do. And I love that because I think it's also, it is following your instinct, because I think it's interesting, when you know you want something, for me anyway, I know I want it. And that is a pretty easy decision to make when I'm not sure, that's when I know that I'm not ready to make that decision yet. I need to either sit on it or I do need to look at some other things because that option isn't the right option. So I do think, yeah, it's interesting to listen to your instinct and how that goes. Because I think about certain decisions I've made that were very impulsive and I'm thinking, but they were great decisions. They worked out really well because I just knew. Anyway, yeah, it is an interesting little kind of trick. Now for the big things, he likes to think like a venture capitalist. He writes everything down on the topic, pros, cons. He reads them out loud. That process is basically like writing an investment memo for a VC investment. But in this case, the investment is of your time, your money and your energy. Of course, we've learned about this in the past I think too about pros and cons. But what I really like about what he's saying here is you read it out loud and I would even add that for the ADHDer to read it out loud and talk to somebody else about it.
Pete Wright: When I was still teaching regularly, this was my regular bit of advice to students is whatever you write for submission, read it out loud, or have it read to you the act of having those words come back through your ears, not by way of just your brain allows you to find all of the things that can trip you up. Like all the things you don't necessarily believe. The, the things that aren't cited, the grammatical errors, because you're tripping over the sounds of words and all of that thing, that stuff really helps. And I can imagine in this case, just reading those decisions, those possible options allowed can help your trigger in a new way. I know it works in other contexts for me and I can see how this, this would probably be very effective for me too.
Nikki Kinzer: And then there were some other ideas too, that we came up with on our own, you and I, that we do. And then there were some other things too in my research. And one of the things I thought was really interesting is accept what you can and cannot control, and boy, having anxiety, that's a hard one, right? Because we want to control everything.
Pete Wright: Everything. Yeah.
Nikki Kinzer: And a couple of aspects around this particular point, one of the ideas was to decide on three or four reasonable non-negotiable things that you need in order to make a decision. And by doing this, and I agree, because by doing this, it sets this minimum criteria so that you don't have to look at every single option. So for example, if you're looking for a new house, what are your have-tos? What are the non-negotiables so that when you go in and look at the database, those are the things you're looking at, rather than looking at everything or looking at things 10,000 above your price point and 10,000 below your price point. Really kind of trying to zero in on limiting a number of options. And one of the things I would add to this that I talk to clients about is do eliminate the ones that you know you don't want. Don't keep those in front of you, get them out of your eyesight so that you're only looking at what you really see as being valuable, because it's clutter, it's mental clutter that you don't need to be looking at, right?
Pete Wright: Yeah.
Nikki Kinzer: I know with myself and with other people that I talk to when it's really difficult to make a decision, it's those what if questions that get in our way. And it can be a simple, I don't even know if this is simple necessarily, but what if you choose a movie? Say you're having a hard time choosing a movie, and the movie's bad. Okay. The movie was bad, or you decide that you want to live in this neighborhood, but what if you have bad neighbors? Okay. What if you do have bad neighbors? We can't control whether or not we think the movie is bad until we watch the movie. We really aren't going to know if we're going to have bad neighbors until we really move into the neighborhood and find out what our relationships are like. So there's these things that can happen, but we really have no control over them if and when they happen. And the part that I struggle with in this is their advice was, well, think this through. What if the worst case scenario happens? Totally fine with that, to an extent.
Pete Wright: Yeah. Unless you live with anxiety and then you're perseverating on the worst case scenario.
Nikki Kinzer: Well then you're thinking of the worst case scenario. And so I can't think about it too much because then I'm like going down these rabbit holes that are not healthy and I won't do anything. So then I stay stuck. And so I think that you have to know yourself on what's going to serve you and what's not. And I think that for myself, with handling my own anxiety, I just have to keep remembering that there's always going to be options and solutions whatever happens. So whether it's a good thing or a bad thing, I can't really think about it until I'm there. It doesn't serve me to do the what ifs all that much. So that's me personally.
Pete Wright: Yeah. Speaking for myself, I'm with you on all of that. And I think this is where I trip up on the three to four reasonable, know what you want and the what if questions together. And I think this leads me back to realizing that acceptance happens at the decision level. It's hard for me to build a rule set that says every time I want to make a decision and I'm having FOBO, I'm going to apply this consistent approach every time. I can't do that. I have a friend, for example, you talked about your movies. I have a friend who has been working, he loves movies, but he has been working really hard on developing the muscle that is if I don't get into the movie about 20 minutes and I'm not enjoying it or provoked to see what happens next, I stop the movie. I can't do that, because that's where, I don't know how to do that because FOBO hits me at 20 minutes in and I think, well, how will I be able to talk about the movie if I don't finish it? Sometimes stuff happens at the end that really changes my perspective. And this is a muscle that this friend of mine has built saying, you know what? I don't care. If I don't care in 20 minutes to find out what's going to happen in two hours, I'm going to start a different movie. I'm going to try something new.
Nikki Kinzer: And that's what's interesting too, because I think that what you're hitting on is it really, can we take a step back and figure out what is it that we really do care about? And do we really care about this? And what is the impact of this right now versus later? And one of the things that I think really struck me about the research was that will this decision matter in five years? Two days from now, is it going to make a difference? And keeping things in perspective as much as you can. It's so hard when you're in the middle of it all.
Pete Wright: Yeah. Right.
Nikki Kinzer: But we do have to look at, is this something I really care about? Or is this something that I am just, I'm stuck on right now, but maybe if I can figure out a way to get out of it, it won't feel as bad. I don't know. I think that it depends on how much you care about it.
Pete Wright: Yeah. Right. Right. So I want to, I want to level up exactly that, because I think this is part of the empathetic vibe that a lot of a ADHD people have, and it goes back to Michael Crichton who has a thing called wet streets cause rain. I know I've talked about this on the show. So forgive me if it sounds familiar, but just a refresh. You're reading the newspaper, and you're reading an article about ADHD and ADHD coaching. And it says some things in there that are objectively wrong. And you know, Nikki, that those things are wrong because you live and work in this space and you are trained and you are certified and you have this step that the reporter just didn't get right in the story. And you think to yourself, ah, stupid, this is incorrect. You turn the page. And now you're reading something about curling, the sport of curling. There is intrigue in the world of curling. You're not a curler, are you?
Nikki Kinzer: I think it's a weird sport.
Pete Wright: Okay. So you don't know anything about curling.
Nikki Kinzer: Uh-uh (negative).
Pete Wright: And you read that story, and you believe it is gospel. You believe every single fact in there because you don't know anything else about curling. And so your worldview, just in the space of having that page turned, it's the same newspaper.
Nikki Kinzer: Right, right.
Pete Wright: And yet you have totally turned around on your opinion about this story, about curling. You totally believe that this is true. Even though you know objectively that this is a paper that prints stuff that is incorrect. Okay. So he calls that Gell-Mann Amnesia. And I'll put a link in the show notes. I think about this all the time. Because when I hear other people making decisions, or having a decision on the horizon, that is triggering for me, because I have FOBO on behalf of them.
Nikki Kinzer: Of that person, right.
Pete Wright: Yeah. Of that person. You called me, you texted me and you said, "I have to buy a new computer." And then ghosted me for like two hours, because you were out buying a new computer I think. And I went into like a panic state. I was like, oh God, I hope she makes the right decision. I hope she makes all the right... And you did, you did fine. It was fine. You are capable of buying your own computer. You were an adult. But I found that very triggering to me.
Nikki Kinzer: I'm so sorry.
Pete Wright: No, because you had asked and I was ready, I was ready. And I was on the hotline. Let's talk through features and specs because that's what I know. If you had told me you wanted to go out and buy a new spiral notebook, I would have had no strong opinions about that.
Nikki Kinzer: Right, right, right, yes.
Pete Wright: None. And so I find, what I'm getting at is the muscle for me, to your point is I have to be constantly aware of the things that I have strong opinions about that are triggering for me. And you've heard me say it, I don't have a strong opinion about that. Whatever you ask me, I have to practice that, that has to be a daily sort of bit of mindfulness for me, or I can spin up like crazy.
Nikki Kinzer: Well, you're doing a really good job, because I have noticed you saying that a lot. So good job. Good job to you.
Pete Wright: Thank you. Thank you. It's really really important to me. Maybe not to everybody else, but I can spiral so fast, I can perseverate, we've talked about it.
Nikki Kinzer: Well, and I have to tell you, Pete, I felt so bad because I did. I asked you the question and then after I got done with my last appointment, I went straight to Best Buy to buy the computer. And I thought about you and I thought, oh, damn, oh, I don't know if I can say that. That I left you, I left you. And I felt horrible.
Pete Wright: You did. It was a techno ghosting right there.
Nikki Kinzer: It was. And it was sort of a sense of urgency because I needed it quickly. But anyway, I do get what your point is, for sure. And it is interesting that we do have to think about how much we care about this and hopefully anybody that's listening will take that to heart. That it doesn't have to be every decision, that yes, some decisions are going to be harder to make. We know that. But maybe some of the ones that you don't care as much about you can say, what did you say? I don't have a strong opinion.
Pete Wright: I don't have a strong opinion on that.
Nikki Kinzer: I like that. I like that. I don't have a strong opinion on that. And maybe you don't need to have one, and that's okay. You can make that decision.
Pete Wright: Because you know what, once you start saying that a lot, you will know. It's like the coin thing. You will know more readily when you do have a strong opinion about something.
Nikki Kinzer: Right, right. I love that.
Pete Wright: It like bubbles up. It's like, huh? I need to think about that. Apparently I'm feeling something strongly about that.
Nikki Kinzer: Yes.
Pete Wright: It is a sense of just sort of intellectual curiosity, I think, or emotional curiosity that comes up, for me.
Nikki Kinzer: Something I want to add to this that I believe is also a brother or sister to FOMO and FOBO is the over-complication of things. And I see this a lot with clients where they'll say I know I'm over complicating this, I know I'm making too much of this or I'm looking at too many details or whatever it might be. And sometimes they are, sometimes they are over-complicating it. And so as a coach, I have to take a step back and say, "Okay, wait a minute. Let's look at what's happening here. And so again, I have to stress the importance it is to talk things through with other people, when you feel like you're over-complicating or something isn't making sense, or you do feel like you have too many options or you're having a hard time breaking something down, talk to someone else. It can be anyone, it can be a coach. It can be your therapist. It can be your friend. It can be your spouse, one of your children, a colleague, a boss, it doesn't matter. Just pick somebody that you trust and talk it through to them and say, "This is what's going on." And find out what they have to say. And then also ask yourself, what are the boundaries that you have, or want to have around your time? How much time do you want to spend on this? Because I'm sure there's people out there that will say I still need to do the research. I'm not going to be comfortable making a decision by just making it. So, okay. But what are the boundaries around your time? Do you want to spend two hours on it? Are you okay with spending three or four hours on it? Because it means that much to you. So again, I think it goes back to how important it is, what is the time factor that you want to invest? Are you clear about what you're even looking for? Let's be clear about what it is that you need and try to eliminate some of those decisions and options so that you can get closer to the three or four that seem more reasonable. So I think that there's a lot of different ways to approach this. And my hope for people who are listening is that there is a way to approach it. And that you don't have to always get stuck in the spiral every single time.
Pete Wright: Like so many of the things you can see, it's sort of the thread of what we've been talking about so far this season. So much of it is about the framework that you create, the scaffolding you create for how you approach problems. It's the big tools, the internal tools you bring to bear when you face these things, it's okay. It doesn't have to be what everybody else does.
Nikki Kinzer: Absolutely not. And if you need a little bit more time, then take your time.
Pete Wright: Take the time.
Nikki Kinzer: Right. Absolutely.
Pete Wright: We've got links to the articles and resources that Nikki talked about. I'll put a link into the Michael Crichton, wet streets cause rain Gell-Mann Amnesia effect that I talked about here, so if you want to read a little bit more about that. It's interesting. And we appreciate you. Thank you everyone for downloading and listening to this show, we appreciate your time and your attention. Don't forget, it's pledge drive month. If you want to support us and what we do, if you want to get access to the platinum level new tier stuff, goodies that new platinum members get, you can do that for this month. That means you get Coffee with Pete. You get Coaching with Nikki coming up a little bit later in the month. There's just a lot of very exciting stuff. And we would appreciate it if you would consider it, take advantage of some of these resources and also the placeholder podcast is coming. I've got the script to the trailer literally right on my screen, right here.
Nikki Kinzer: Oh, so you're going to be recording that probably soon.
Pete Wright: And in one place, I'm recording it imminently. In fact, let me just tell you, as we're talking about this, some of the sound effects you will hear, or games, would you like to play a game? Bard's Tale, 1985, sound effects from the game. How about the Windows 3.1 opening chime? Yes, those are all sound effects you'll hear in the upcoming placeholder trailer. Very exciting stuff. Anyway, thank you all, everyone, one and all for being a part of this community, you make it so, so special. As Nikki said early on, you're so much better than us. We're just lucky to be able to hang out with you people.
Nikki Kinzer: So true.
Pete Wright: Thanks everybody. We'll see you next week right here on Taking Control: The ADHD Podcast.
