Aron Croft Brings ME into Building your Business with ADHD
The last time Aron Croft was here, he shared his story of his education and personal background meeting ADHD reality. But you know what else? He built a successful Fortune 500 career and a highly successful training business teaching his 8% Productivity Habit, which helps ADHDers complete what we like to call clogging tasks, those tasks you've put off for months, and need more than simple willpower to get them done.
He's back with us this week to share how the ADHD reality meets the business world and how you might find success by pivoting a business school classic model for your own needs.
We're talking about the 4PM model: Product, Promotion, Pricing, and Process come together to illuminate the M, Market Fit. But Aaron argues that ADHD business owners need a second M: the ME Fit. Listen in as we explore how to prioritize the Me Fit into your operations, how to figure out what your Me and Market Fit really is, and how to use this model to decide if your best business inspiration is really a good fit for your hard work.
Learn more about Aron at FreeADHDTraining.com and check out his TikTok summary of 4PM2 here!
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Pete Wright:
Hello everybody, and welcome to Taking Control: The ADHD Podcast on True Story FM. I'm Pete Wright, and I'm here with Nikki Kinzer.
Nikki Kinzer:
Hello everyone. Hello, Pete Wright.
Pete Wright:
Nikki, it's March as we are recording this. It is March, we've crested into March. It is the end of the first quarter, speaking in business terms now, and I can't believe it. Have you done your taxes? Are you finished?
Nikki Kinzer:
No. I, haven't even started.
Pete Wright:
Oh, it's rough. I don't care for it.
Nikki Kinzer:
But we have something to help me though. And you.
Pete Wright:
We sure do. We sure do.
Nikki Kinzer:
And our listeners.
Pete Wright:
I might just need to start showing up. But before we talk about that, head over to takecontroladhd.com. You can get to know us a little bit better. You can listen to the show right there on the website, or subscribe to the mailing list on the homepage and we'll send you an email each time a new episode is released. You can connect with us on Facebook, or Instagram, or Pinterest, at Take Control ADHD. But to really connect with us, like to double dog dare you to connect with us, head over to the ADHD Discord community. It is super easy to jump in the general community chat channel. Just visit takecontroladhd.com/discord and you'll be whisked over to the general invitation and log in page. If you are looking for a little more, particularly if this show has ever touched you or helped you understand your relationship with ADHD in a new way, we invite you to support the show directly through Patreon.
Patreon is listener supported podcasting, with just a few dollars a month you can help guarantee that we continue to grow the show, add new features, invest more heavily in our community. Just visit patreon.com/theadhdpodcast to learn more. Again, patreon.com/theadhdpodcast. And one of those fantastic features is tax study halls for Patrons. Nikki, what?
Nikki Kinzer:
Yes. I need help. So, I figured that maybe a lot of people need help when it comes to taxes, because it's one of those things that we all have to do, but man, it's hard to do. And it's hard to get started, and it's complicated, and confusing. And so, we are holding study halls, which are basically body double sessions. We're not studying our taxes, but we are going to-
Pete Wright:
Studying each other's taxes? Will you study my taxes?
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah, really. Am I doing the right thing here? But yeah, we're going to have a couple of hours set aside on Saturday and a couple of hours set aside on Sunday through the whole month of March. So, every Saturday and Sunday in March we're going to hold those study hours. And then of course, we are going to have more body doubling options as we get closer to the actual deadline. And I believe it's on Tuesday this year on the 18th. And so, we're going to double up on Monday and Tuesday because we're here for you.
Pete Wright:
Absolutely. So, much access. We're going to be taxing so hard over the next two months. Oh my goodness. Well, it's really great. It's very timely. If you haven't checked it out again, patreon.com/theadhdpodcast to become a Patron, get access to all the great features plus tax study halls. You can do that right now. Now, we are talking about some classic old school business stuff today. I'm very excited about it, and we have one of our favorite guests to join us on the show. And I think we should get them in. You want to get them in?
Nikki Kinzer:
I think so.
Pete Wright:
Let's get him. Aron? The last time you were here, Aron, you shared your story of your educational and personal background meeting ADHD reality. But you know what else? You have built a successful Fortune 500 career, a highly successful training business, teaching your 8% productivity habit, and you're going to talk a little bit more about that later. And you're back with us today to share how ADHD reality meets the business world, and how we might find some success by pivoting this business school classic model for your own ADHD needs. I'm glad you are here to do this. It started, I think, you wrote saying you'd been doing some research, digging in on some research, and you wanted to share it. What got you into going down this grueling line of inquiry?
Aron Croft:
So, I think that a lot of ADHD-ers, myself included, have this dream or desire to consider or pursue entrepreneurship, to work for themselves. And I think that's driven by probably three things. So, we don't like being told what to do in general. And so, this idea that we wouldn't have a boss telling us what to do. Secondly, we want to do work that really feels very meaningful. And I think we perceive that we'd have the opportunity to do that more if we were working for ourselves. And then finally, a lot of us are looking for scalability in terms of where we're not just trading time for dollars, but we can start to see that there's some more freedom on the horizon. And so, I just got really interested in it because I just noticed that myself and all these clients, and all these people I was talking with were so interested in entrepreneurship, and I really just wanted to dig down and understand research from people that were interested in it what was stopping them. And that's where I ended up sending you that email.
Pete Wright:
I think that's what really piqued my interest, because so much about entrepreneurship, especially we're in the middle of this business series on the show, and so this is perfect timing for this conversation. So, much of entrepreneurship for me, it is satisfied by my ADHD brain. Entrepreneurship is an excuse to live ADHD out loud. Does that make sense? I could be just making things up, but certainly that's certainly how it feels in my skin, and that's a blessing and a curse. And so, I don't know. I mean, Nikki, where do you stand on this stuff? I mean, is this some of the stuff that you're coaching through?
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh, absolutely. I would say a lot of my clients are entrepreneurs. I have a group right now that I'm doing that half of them in this group is are entrepreneurs. So, it is something that you definitely see in the ADHD community. I think that the ideas are so unique, and they do have such passion around what they're doing and what they want to do. I think the downfall is they're overwhelmed because there is so much to do, and there are so many hats to wear as an entrepreneur. And I think especially as people are starting out, they're very hesitant to delegate or spend any money. And so, those are some of the roadblocks that I see.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, for sure. Okay, so-
Aron Croft:
I mean, I would definitely love more hats. I could cover some of the shine going on in my forehead. I bet Nikki's-
Nikki Kinzer:
We don't want to cover that. You look great.
Pete Wright:
You look great.
Aron Croft:
... got some pretty good hat collection. I could see you with a strong hat game.
Pete Wright:
She collects other people's hats.
Nikki Kinzer:
I do. Yeah.
Pete Wright:
This is the thing that strikes me. I taught marketing in the MBA program at Marylhurst University, may it rest in peace now that it's closed its stores, for many, many years. And so, I have been teaching the four P's of marketing. Both the traditional four P's, product, price, place, promotion, and as it has evolved over the last few decades, including process instead of place. And very, very valuable stuff. This is sort of the nut of your discussion and how you're twisting it, pivoting it for ADHD. Walk us through what you've learned and where you stand.
Aron Croft:
Sure. So the four P's, the way that I learned them, were basically product, promotion, pricing, and process. So, if you're interested in entrepreneurship, and now I would say that this generally would apply to not necessarily people that have already made the leap and they're running a successful business, but you want to make the leap, or maybe you've made the leap and you're not finding success. So, if you pursue entrepreneurship, you would come across some business advice that will angle towards you. So, what you need is they will talk about that you need the four P's with market fit. So, product market fit is does my market want to buy what I'm offering? Promotion market fit is how will my target audience find out about my product? Pricing market fit is, is my pricing aligned with what my market will pay?
You can't charge 10 million for a toaster. And process market fit is how do I deliver this product consistently? You think about subway sandwiches, being able to deliver these sorts of things consistently. And so, those are the ones that if you really start to outline a business, a lot of people, including ADHD aspiring entrepreneurs will spend their time here just trying to figure out how can I get the right product, and how can I promote it the right way and build the right social media following? And I find that this is a ineffective way for the people I've spoken to pursue a successful business with ADHD.
Pete Wright:
Okay, why? And this is the thing that gets me very, very excited, because it's something that I don't think I've ever thought about as anything more than possibly an excuse. That might be fair. Tell me about me.
Aron Croft:
Sure. So, what I encourage ADHD entrepreneurs, and this was based on interviewing, I believe 15 entrepreneurs, detailed interviews, to really understand ... Or aspiring entrepreneurs I should say. And so, what I really found, and I found this for myself as well, and I would encourage you if you're considering pursuing something entrepreneurial, rather than start with the traditional, let's just air quote neurotypical market four P's as far as market fit, I would challenge you or encourage you to consider the four P's first from a second M, which is me. So, to look at me fit. So, let me tell you how that breaks down. So, product me fit is like for ADHD-ers it's kind of like if I don't enjoy delivering this product and I don't like it, I'm just not going to do it.
I want to do work that feels like my true self. I don't care if it's going to make a billion dollars, if it doesn't fit me I don't want to deliver this product or service. Promotion me fit is, if I don't enjoy my promotion activities I won't do them. I'm not going to do anything sleazy, that feels gross. And if I don't like making videos, I'm just not going to do it even if it's what I should do, right?
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh, totally. Oh, I feel you on that one.
Aron Croft:
Right?
Nikki Kinzer:
Yes.
Aron Croft:
And then we could dive into all these. But the pricing me fit is I want this pricing so that I can get freedom. I want to have a scalable business and that's really what I want to build. At the same time, I don't really feel worthy to charge the prices that I would need to charge. And so, you have this weird pricing me fit where people feel a bit conflicted about the prices they're charging. And then honestly, I think at least the work that I do, because the other work I do is really focused around ADHD productivity for adults, is this final one, which is process me fit. So, you can have everything else lined up, all the perfect product, market fit, even the product me fit, the whole thing, the perfect plan.
But then what I see with so many people is, "I know exactly what to do, but I just can't get myself to do it." And if you don't have a me fit on your process where you know how to get yourself to do that which you want to do, then no amount of alignment is going to ... You're not going to be able to execute on the plan.
Nikki Kinzer:
So, can you define what process means exactly?
Aron Croft:
Yeah. So, on the market fit side, it's basically like, can I deliver a consistent product or service? So, if someone walks into the Subway sandwich shop, can they get it in the same in Bethesda, Maryland as in Seattle? If you run your GPS groups and someone comes in, is there going to be a fit where they can have a consistent experience where there's going to be quality controls, or if they go with work with different coaches of yours, et cetera. The me fit on process is like, what's my process? So, how do I prioritize things? How do I get myself to do the things that I've decided I want to do? So, that's how I would define process.
Nikki Kinzer:
And then so, systems, I hear the word systems a lot too, and I just want to be clear that a system is different than a process, because you're saying the process is making sure it's consistent no matter where you're at. The systems that you put in place in your business, how is that different? Those are just how you're doing your daily work, or having a routine of how you communicate with your people? Or what does that look like?
Aron Croft:
So, a subset of your process would be your systems. Some things can be systemized. Repeatable tasks, things that you expect, things that have some level of predictability. But when you need to sit down and make a presentation for a thing that you're going to deliver on, maybe you've got a process for how you do it, but you don't necessarily have a system in place where it's automated and repeatable. Basically it's how do you do the work as the entrepreneur, as the CEO? How do you get yourself to do what you need to do so it's sort of ... That's at least at the me fit side.
Nikki Kinzer:
Right, yeah. Because that's what I'm thinking is it has to be really individualized and custom for you to make it work.
Pete Wright:
It's hard not to think through this model and not apply it, not look in the proverbial mirror.
Aron Croft:
That's the goal I hope we can talk about all of us applying it. And if you're listening at home, you can play along too.
Pete Wright:
I think personally, for me, I've nailed the product. I feel like as a podcast network, it's something that I love to do and I have no trouble delivering the ... Think imagining doing the work sustainably.
Aron Croft:
Product me fit's solid for Pete. You enjoy it, 100%. Perfect for you.
Pete Wright:
It feels totally solid. Promotion-
Nikki Kinzer:
Solid for me too.
Pete Wright:
Solid for you too? Okay. So, solid. We're doing round-robin. Are we doing one at a time? We'll do round-robin?
Aron Croft:
And just to chime in, because the round-robin wouldn't be complete, solid for me too. I mean, I've seen this with successful people across all things, but in general most of the success that I've seen are people that don't perceive the work they're doing as work because they enjoy it enough. Now, it doesn't mean that it's not like would I rather be on the beach than dealing with something at 7:00 PM. But things that you might do on vacation or that you might do on the weekend for fun, if you're doing those things it's a good sign that it's something ... I used to read productivity books, and neuroscience books, and psychology books, and self-help books for fun on the weekend on vacation. So, I had a good sense that making that my full-time job was going to continue to be fun. And it is. I laugh when I get to just have coaching calls with my groups and stuff, because it's so much fun. I'm like, "This is great. People will talk about this stuff with me. My wife doesn't want to talk about this stuff with me."
Pete Wright:
Melissa is in our chat room, Discord Mom's in the chat room if you're ... Once again, if you're a Patron you can listen along to the live streams. And Melissa's commenting and she said something that is really astute. Normally I wouldn't interject it in the middle of the show, but, "I still don't know how things get done. I'm amazed when I look back at a finished product surprising myself that it got done." That is, I think, a sign of exactly what you're talking about, which is if the work itself, for me, if the work itself is joyful enough and it is a good me fit, than looking back on the work getting done and having it not feel like work is a sign of that success. Is a sign that it's a good pair. That's kind of how I'm looking at it.
Promotion. I think I'm okay here, but this is where I want to poke a little bit at myself because I feel like when I look at a promotional me fit, I don't love social media. There are so many platforms that I have real ideological challenges with and therefore don't use them. So, I've made what I feel like is a pure decision that fits my worldview, and yet I carry the shame of not doing them for the sake of my business. If I had completed the me fit cycle in my head, I might be able to stop the shames part and actually say, "You know what? I've made the right decision and it feels good." But I'm not to that point yet.
Aron Croft:
Well I mean, I think there are really two ways to look at this and then I'll let Nikki put her opinion in here. So, the first is just in terms of the looking at what is. So, I would say that what you've done is a great example of the way that I approach things, and that I noticed with all the ADHD aspiring entrepreneurs that I interviewed were also approaching things, which is it doesn't matter how many things you come across that tell you you should be doing this beat. It doesn't even matter how much you beat yourself up and how guilty you feel. If a certain type of promotion, medium, social media, whatevs doesn't jive with you, you ain't going to do it no matter what you, no matter what you say and not do. So, rather than-
Pete Wright:
That's the reality.
Aron Croft:
... berate yourself for doing it or not doing it, just if you accept it, then you end up with you have a much easier way to make a decision about next steps. Which is either, I'm going to just ignore that because you know what? I'm not going to waste brain calories, and instead I'm going to double down on these areas that I am willing to do. I'm going to make little voice tweets, or whatever, because I love doing audio, whatever it is that Pete loves. Or I'm going to do that to promote. Or, then back to Nikki's point, you come up with a system or another way to get those things, to get show up on those platforms that you can systemize, automate, delegate, or otherwise not really be involved in. So, that's my two cents on it. But you did a great illustration of the fact that the me fit really does drive things for ADHD entrepreneurs. So, Nikki, what are your thoughts?
Nikki Kinzer:
Well, and I think that if you really have issues with some of the platforms, I think you are doing the right thing by staying away, because it's not the only way to promote your business. And that's what I'll tell clients is that they feel this need to be on social media. And I'm like, "You don't have to be. You can still find other ways to promote yourself and other ways to build your business that doesn't mean you have to post every day on Facebook, or Instagram, or whatever that might be." I would say for me, promotion is not solid. I think there's a lot of work to be done, and I am opening myself up to those opportunities and seeing what what's available. I don't think we do it as well as we could, and I don't think we do it enough. And so, there's definitely room for improvement.
But I will say one thing I did make a change last year is I had an assistant who really did push me on, "Oh, you need to do videos, you need to do this with Facebook," and da-da-da-da-da. And really tried to get me out there on social media. And I finally decided I really don't want to put my time in Facebook. I want to put my time in Patreon. I would rather go to my Discord members and post there, and reply there, and really build that community who are already following us because of our podcast. They're supporting us. That's where I want to put my time. And that was a big shift to say, "Okay, this is where I want to go instead." And it takes time to learn that.
Pete Wright:
I mean, they're the most important people. Totally. They're the most important people in our universe. There's no doubt about it. Are they listening right now? They are the most people in our universe.
Nikki Kinzer:
I hope so.
Pete Wright:
So, I go back to that, Nikki. I just want to push at that one piece you just said, not thinking that you're promoting enough is different from promoting in alignment with your values, your me value. I mean, is that a fair statement?
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah, right. I agree. Yes, yes. Well, especially because it goes back to your product. If we're just looking at the podcast, I really love our podcast. I believe in everything that we do and I know our intentions are to really help the ADHD community, and support them, and build that. So absolutely, I don't have a problem promoting it, it's with my value system. But it's just the avenues of it.
Aron Croft:
It's been a challenge for me. I'll be perfectly transparent. I grew up, we were upper middle class, whatnot, but I don't know, it was just a Jewish household and we weren't really supposed to spend money on ourselves. We would just shop at all the thrift stores. And it was just like I didn't grow up feeling spending money on myself. And I see this with a lot of my productivity group students is, as an adult, as I wanted to grow and deal with some of my procrastination and productivity issues, I felt that I wasn't allowed to invest in myself because I'd squandered the support growing up, and I was just too lazy or whatever my mom said. And so, I had all this guilt and shame about spending money on coaching and support. So, then when I launched a coaching business, I had to deal with a lot of those old stories and just really deal with it. And I'm still dealing with it.
So, I put together a group program, and right now it's six months long. And I'm looking at Eric Tivers, who I love, Eric and I are good friends. And I'm like, "Okay, cool. He's got a 10-week program that's like three grand." I'm like, "All right, I'm going to make my six-month program like $997." Meanwhile, my business coach is like, "You're changing lives. You got to up the price here." So, it's a constant evolution, and I'd say I'm still growing in that area, being comfortable charging at the level of what I deliver. But that's the growth as an entrepreneur.
Pete Wright:
Right. I imagine you also have no trouble telling other people that they're not charging enough.
Aron Croft:
I mean, ultimately here's what I do tell people, Pete. People, Pete. Tell people, Pete. Is that ultimately you need the me fit. Because here's the thing. If I were to push somebody to say, "You need to be charging more," and they're not aligned, it doesn't have me fit with them ... My beliefs about money and all those things haven't evolved to the point where I'm charging $2,000, $3,000 for my program. They probably will. My program is listed right now at $2,000. It's just currently 50% off. I don't know how long that'll last. But what happens is that if I were to push someone and be like, "No, you need to charge $2,000 now," and they're not aligned, they won't be able to sell it. So, I would push them to maybe consider some of their money beliefs and their stories, and look at how by charging more they can serve their people better, and that sort of thing.
Because I know a lot of amazing coaches and a lot of people with the biggest hearts in the world who could literally transform thousands or millions of lives, who are broke and or not doing this, they only have five hours a week to do what they could do. And so, they're not impacting very many lives because they're trying to charge nothing, or very little. So, I would encourage them to revisit some of their money stories, and do some of that work like I've been doing, but I wouldn't push them outside of the me fit because we're all rigidity rebels. We're stubborn as can be. And if we don't feel aligned, we just call time out and say, "Screw it." In my experience.
Nikki Kinzer:
And it doesn't come across authentic. That authenticity becomes lost very quickly. I always think of it this way, if I wouldn't pay it myself then I'm not going to charge it. So, I'm going to charge whatever I think I would pay myself. I mean, if it was another product or service that I was looking at. Then, yeah.
Pete Wright:
This is one that I think, and I appreciate all of your candor here, Aron, because you just hit right in the sweet spot of my tender, emotionally terrified center around pricing and the me fit. That is the hardest thing for me to get around. And it has been for nearly two decades, I've been doing this myself. And it doesn't matter who I talk to, whether it's a coach or a client, they say the same thing, "You're undercharging." And I struggle finding the me fit for pricing in a way that is comfortable for me. What I wish in my heart of hearts is that the entire world was a great big Patreon, and I could just say, "Here's Pete's Patreon, and I'll work for anybody. You pay me what you think I'm worth and I'll just do my best. And I won't have to have a menu or a price tag. And I just what's ..." That's the ideal. And as yet, I have not discovered that model to actually work.
Aron Croft:
Well I mean, the nice thing thing is that at least you've made it over the hump where you can at least be in business for yourself.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, that's true.
Aron Croft:
Because if we look at phases of business, there's kind of that launch phase where maybe you can't support yourself. And then, so you're kind of get to stabilization, then you could be at growth, then scaling, and that sort of thing, but at least if you're stable. So, one thing that I think was really helpful coaching that I got, and that I give to other people, is this idea that if you are an aspiring entrepreneur or your company is young and hasn't gotten to stabilization, to follow the Tesla model for how they did their business. So, Elon Musk's goal has always been to have a electric car for everyone at the $25,000 price range or something.
Obviously I work in the helping space, as do you both, and a lot of the ADHD-ers I've talked to really have these golden hearts and just want to help all these people. And so, they want to start at, "How can I have a $5, $10, $30 a month community that helps all these people? Because that's super affordable." And it's fine if you can make it work. But I find that it's a much lower risk proposition to follow Tesla's model, which was we want to be able to have this low price product that will serve everybody. So, we're going to start by selling ... Our first product's going to be an $100,000 premium vehicle, which is going to give us cash in the door and let us get to stabilization.
Then we can start to make a dent in the universe and help all the people, ideas. But if you never get to stabilization, you're going back to your other jobs, and now you have a lot less time to work on your business. And so, that was a really helpful thing for me to get that coaching on to start with the higher priced, the one-on-one coaching, the premium sort of thing, and then work my way down to now where I can offer a six-month coaching program for $997. Yeah.
Pete Wright:
Right. Did you want to jump in on pricing, Nikki? I feel like I-
Nikki Kinzer:
No, no.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Nikki Kinzer:
You guys covered it well.
Pete Wright:
I think process for me is another one. If I look at where my pain points are in terms of the me fit, it's promotion or pricing, those two are the areas that I'm still exploring. Product and process, I feel like I'm doing okay. Process, when you look at process as a collection of systems that allow me to deliver my product, I know I can do it for me, and I deliver podcasts for my clients. And to scale up, I had to frankly just hire more people. And now I have a partner and another editor. And for some of my shows, not this one, but some of my shows, I actually have others edit the work that I used to do and held as sacrosanct. That was something that no one else would touch, but I had to get over that in order for it to maintain a me fit, because I wasn't going to be able to sustainably deliver so many shows by myself.
It would crumble. I would fall off the tracks, whatever metaphor you want to take. So, I think I have a way to sort of interrogate my process me fit pretty well. Nikki, where are you on process?
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh.
Pete Wright:
That wasn't a laugh line.
Nikki Kinzer:
It is a serious work in process, or work in process?
Pete Wright:
We'll take it.
Nikki Kinzer:
Wasn't that funny that I said that? Work in progress for the process. This, Take Control ADHD definitely went through some changes last year by adding some coaches, and I don't know, I'm still figuring it out. I'm still trying to figure out what this all means. Scaling is strange when you have a coaching service. So, I don't know. I don't know. I have no answer to that. I'm figuring it out.
Pete Wright:
Aron, give us help.
Aron Croft:
Totally. So look, I think that Nikki was talking about the market process fit in terms of how do we get this coaching and stuff scaled and delivered in a way that works. And that is the challenge that a lot of entrepreneurs run into as they grow and scale. I think what I see, especially with the younger entrepreneurs and the aspiring entrepreneurs, is that the process me fit is honestly the biggest obstacle. Because they can have everything else aligned, they can love the product, they can find the kind of promotion, this sort of video, or audio, or text, or whatever promotion they're doing, and they can even find pricing they're aligned with. But I mean, if they can't get themselves to do those actions, it's all for naught.
It's just a fancy idea in their heads. And what I see with so many people is just this, "I want to do it. I either can't get started, or I get started and I can't stay on task, or I get started, I can stay on task, but then my motivation just disappears a day, or a week, or a month later. And I just go on the next shiny object and I lose it, and I forget where I was going."
And so, without the ability to maintain the consistency of execution, and to see something through past two weeks or four weeks is a critical skill for success. And that is honestly something that most of the ADHD-ers that I work with in my productivity group struggle with. To do what you two have done, and Nikki's done and run, I mean, how many seasons? How long have you been executing this podcast? I mean, so long-
Nikki Kinzer:
Many, many years.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Aron Croft:
I mean, I can't even keep track of the number of seasons and episodes. I mean, it's astronomical. And most people listening wouldn't have the me fit on their process yet to be able to do what you two have done in this podcast, for instance.
Nikki Kinzer:
I mean, the process has changed over time as far as the style of the show and everything, but the consistency's there. And showing up to do it, I think is ... Yeah. He's saying, "Yep, yep. That's what it is." Yeah, it is so important.
Pete Wright:
I wonder, when you look at these business folks that you interviewed, to what degree have they been able to prioritize the me part of this equation? And I mean, is that really what you're uncovering? That to what degree they do or don't prioritize themselves in the four P's?
Aron Croft:
Yeah. So, the people I spoke with were aspiring entrepreneurs, and so they haven't done this to an effective way. And the biggest challenge is if you Google how to start a business, or you watch YouTube videos on it, everything is going to start with market fit, with the four P's with market. You got to find something that's in demand, and it's this outside in approach. And you could come up with the best Amazon dropshipping thing that's going to make you 10 million ... For the people I've seen, I strongly encourage the other direction, and start with the me fit. Figure out those things that light you up. Think about the product, think about the product or service that the stuff that you do that doesn't feel like work. The other people are like, "Wow, you organized my bathroom for fun as my guest because you how it looks?" Those things that you do that other people are just like, "Why are you reading neuroscience books on vacation? That's weird."
Those things that you do that don't feel like work to you. And if you can think about how I could turn those into a business, you can get your process assorted. There's so many people I know in corporate that are like, "I want to start a business so I can have more choice over what I do." And they struggle with making decisions. Guess what? If you go from a job to your own boss, and the amount of decisions about what you could work on goes up a hundredfold. So, you can start to master this processor on making decisions, how to prioritize, how to get yourself, as Nikki said, to show up, to do the work that you commit to, those are the kind of things that if you start with the me fit, you'll get yourself to a successful business much more easily than if you try to force yourself like a square peg into a round hole of here's a perfect plan on paper. I don't want to execute any of it because I hate the product, and the pricing, and the process, and the promotion.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. That I think is real wisdom is starting with the me fit when you're looking for a new business, especially for ADHD, because everything else can be a cascading list of failures if you just try to find a hole in the market to fill, and what you fill it with doesn't actually light you up. How many times have we seen that? I think that's hugely important to take a step back and work more slowly.
Nikki Kinzer:
Well, and managing the expectations too, because you know what? It is hard having your own business. It is not easy. And there is a lot of work behind the scenes that people don't see or realize until after they're trying to do it themselves. And so, if you can keep persevering and keep knowing that yeah, this is going to be hard, and be uncomfortable with it, being comfortable with being uncomfortable with how hard it is, but keep pushing yourself through because it's not always glamorous to be your own boss.
Pete Wright:
What if we turn this question upside down a little bit? For those listening who don't consider themselves entrepreneurs, have you thought through how the model works for people with the 9:00 to 5:00? 8:00 to 5:00? Who are we? 7:00 to 7:00?
Aron Croft:
Yeah. I mean, I would say that's a great question, Pete, and definitely one I wasn't anticipating. But now that you ask it, I mean, I would say that one way or another the product and the process fit you, if you just start from those two, because obviously you're not going to necessarily have pricing or promotion in the quite same way. Yes, I get it. You can show up in interviews a certain way, but you're pretty constrained on your pricing and promotion options. But that me fit on the process and the product. So again, you could look at the kinds of work that you do, and if you can find work or craft your existing job to really leverage those things that, oh, you like cleaning up other people's spreadsheets and formatting them because you think that's meditative and enjoyable? Definitely do more of that because I don't want to do it.
And so, if you can really align to the product fit about what you enjoy delivering, and then again, I mean, the process me fit, or the lack thereof, is what I see is just ... And again, take it with a grain of salt because my specialty is working with ADHD adults who can't get themselves to do what they want to do so obviously I see more of it, but I feel like that process me fit is the biggest gap to delivering either in a business or just as an employee. If you can't get yourself to do the things that are most important, and get yourself to show up and figure out how to do that prioritization, then you're not going to be successful in your career, or in entrepreneurship at the level that you're capable of.
Nikki Kinzer:
I so agree with that, because it's one of those things that if you're really not happy in your job for whatever reason, whether you don't like the product or you don't like the process, or you just don't like what you're doing, make it a priority to get a different job. Because we just spend-
Pete Wright:
That's a good priority.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah, because we spend so much time doing work. I mean, it's just the way we're set up right now is that we have to work more than we play, which is ridiculous in my opinion. But anyway, from what you're saying, Aron, I relate that to people who are working and they're miserable. It's like, let's get out of that misery and find something. And maybe being an entrepreneur may be the right step for you, and maybe it's not, but finding a company that you believe in, and you love, and are passionate about, you're going to be a lot happier.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Awesome stuff, Aron, as always. So glad you came back to share this with us. You already mentioned a little bit about your coaching, but tell us where to find out more, and tell us a little bit about the kind of coaching you're doing specifically around this stuff.
Aron Croft:
So, I am doing a very limited, I mean, talking like one or two spots open for one-on-one coaching with entrepreneurs that are looking to set up or grow their business, and just sharing what I've learned over the last however many years, and spending 30,000 plus on coaching for myself. But the pricing on that is premium, and it's out of reach for most people. And so, my real passion and joy is spending time on my productivity transformation academy. And that's working with ADHD adults who can't get themselves to do what they want to do, and they feel trapped because they know that they're living below their potential, and they want the freedom that productivity brings, the freedom to do work they enjoy, the freedom to get to the end of the day and not feel bad about themselves, the freedom to live life on their own terms.
So, that's my flagship program. It's a six-month group coaching program. So, that's that. But ultimately, if people want information on that I would recommend that they first watch a free training I've developed. It's about 40 minutes long, I think, which is basically how to complete tasks you've put off for months without relying on willpower. And that's a free training that I have, and that really outlines my whole 8% productivity habit and how the system works.
Pete Wright:
And that's at freeadhdtraining.com.
Aron Croft:
Freeadhdtraining.com. I went for a difficult URL.
Pete Wright:
Good plug. Good plug. Well, and I'll also put in the notes, we've got your TikTok. You posted this, about a three-minute TikTok video walking through this as well, if you want to hear Aron. And if you are not following Aron on TikTok, you can do so that way. Look for the link in the show notes. Aron Croft, thanks for being here. It's great to see you.
Aron Croft:
Always a pleasure, Pete and Nikki. Thank you.
Nikki Kinzer:
Thank you.
Pete Wright:
And thank you all for downloading and listening to this show. We appreciate your time and your attention. Don't forget, if you have something to contribute to this conversation, we are heading over to the show talk channel and our Discord server. And you can join us right there by becoming a supporting member at the deluxe level, or better. On behalf of Nikki Kinzer and Aron Croft, I'm Pete Wright, and we'll see you right back here next week on Taking Control: The ADHD Podcast.
