The Invisible Tightrope: Navigating Parent/Caregiver-Child Relationships with ADHD
As we explore the intricate dance between parents, caregivers, and their children, the presence of Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) can profoundly influence this delicate balance. Parents with ADHD may find solace in shared struggles with their ADHD children, while facing frustration when their symptoms lead to setbacks with neurotypical children. On the other hand, parents without ADHD may struggle to understand the challenges their ADHD child faces, leading to a cycle of punishment and emotional wounds that linger into adulthood.
In families with both ADHD and neurotypical children, the specter of favoritism can breed resentment and anger. The neurotypical child may feel neglected, while the child with ADHD may feel unfairly targeted. At the heart of this discord lies a breakdown in communication.
Effective communication requires active listening and the recognition of non-verbal cues. Those with ADHD may struggle to articulate their needs and emotions, while those without ADHD may find it challenging to grasp the complexities of the condition. Rebuilding these bridges is no small feat, but progress is possible when all family members are committed to fostering healthier, more open dialogue.
The journey toward better communication begins with introspection and asking tough questions about one's own actions, behaviors, and communication style. In times of struggle, seeking the guidance of a trained professional can provide invaluable support.
Ultimately, the path to stronger family relationships lies in focusing on personal growth, communication, and understanding. By embracing empathy and compassion, families can begin to mend the invisible tightrope that binds them together.
Links & Notes
-
Pete Wright:
Hello, everybody, and welcome to Taking Control: The ADHD Podcast on TruStory FM. I'm Pete Wright, and I'm here with Nikki Kinzer.
Nikki Kinzer:
Hello, everyone. Hello, Pete Wright.
Pete Wright:
Oh, hi.
Nikki Kinzer:
Are you going to leave the-
Pete Wright:
How are you?
Nikki Kinzer:
(Singing)
Pete Wright:
(Singing)
Nikki Kinzer:
That's good. I like it.
Pete Wright:
I just had a little stroke right before the show started. That's what happened. We are talking about ... We're continuing our conversation on relationships, sort of.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yes, sort of.
Pete Wright:
We are pivoting to the parent or caregiver relationship with ADHD kids. And I'm sure glad you're here, coach, because I'm not entirely sure how I am going to approach this conversation. I've been studying up and looking up. And mostly, maybe because of my own ADHD, I'm a little bit stymied, so I look forward to your tutelage today.
Before we head into the show proper, make sure to head over to takecontroladhd.com and get to know us a little bit better. You can listen to the show on the website, of course, or subscribe to the mailing list. We'll send you an email each time a new episode is released. And we're on all of the platforms, including, I should say, just in case you're not using it yet, if you were a Google Podcasts listener, we are on YouTube Music. And you can subscribe to us on your mobile device and YouTube Music. If you're one of those users, please, please do. We encourage you to do so. You can connect with us on Facebook or Instagram or Pinterest, @takecontroladhd, but to really connect with us, head over to the ADHD Discord community. It is super easy to jump into the general community and chat channel. Just visit takecontroladhd.com/discord, and that will whisk you over to the invitation page to log in.
But I mean, if you're looking for more, if you want to unlock the hidden door, Platform ... What is it? 12 and three-quarters? That's a Harry Potter reference I probably got wrong. Anyway, if you want to unlock all the secret doors, the mystery invisible doors, head over to patreon.com/theadhdpodcast. Patreon is listener-supported podcasting. It is what makes this podcast work. It's the people who see what we're doing on the podcast and say, "Hey, I'd like to make sure that this podcast doesn't go away ever, so let's go ahead and throw five bucks a month to get in at the main level there," and help support the whole team that works on this podcast. Me and Nikki and Melissa and Brian and Marian. All of us who work on the podcast-adjacent projects. That's what Patreon goes to support.
So you get to join us for the live stream. You can hang out in the live stream and chat and share gifts all the livelong day. You can get early access to the show every week. You get a week early access to the show, and your very own personal private member feed, plus all those super secret ... That's where the real community lives, is in the super secret Discord channel. Patreon.com/theadhdpodcast. As we are recording this, we are in the middle, smack dab in the middle of the Patreon email challenge that is being run by our own Discord mom, Melissa, who is running that. And my voice is in there occasionally on those podcasts too because I follow Melissa around a lot.
Nikki Kinzer:
Me too.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, that's true. And so these are the kinds of projects that your support via Patreon helps us to do. So the email challenge, if you've got email troubles, email woes that give you stress, then maybe check out Patreon and join the crew that's working to clean up their emails this month. This is a great time to do it. So again, patreon.com/theadhdpodcast. Thank you so, so, so very much to all of those who have already subscribed. And water's warm, everybody else. Head on in. Now let's talk about parents and kids.
All right. Nikki Kinzer.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yes.
Pete Wright:
Over the past couple of weeks, we've been talking all about relationships through different lenses. Now we are talking about parents or caregivers and ADHD kiddos. Where do you want to start with this? By what vector? What lens do you want to look at this relationship through first?
Nikki Kinzer:
Well, the idea came from thinking that you have ADHD and you have ADHD children. I don't have ADHD and I have an ADHD child. Now granted, our kids are all young adults now, so it's a little bit different. And I was thinking this morning, when I was thinking about the show, I am definitely not the typical without ADHD having an ADHD child person, because of my experience and knowledge of ADHD. And I'm a coach, so I'm a little ... What's the word? It's not fair. I have a bias.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, you're your own cheat code.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. It's a skewed thought process because of what I do and who I coach. And so of course, I'm going to approach my children similar to the way that I would coach a client. So it's a little different. So yeah, I'm not exactly sure where we're going to go with this conversation, but we're going to do our best.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Right. So let's-
Nikki Kinzer:
Because I think it's important.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, I do too. I do too. So I mean, maybe we just pick it apart, angle by angle. So let's start me, a parent with ADHD, with kids with ADHD.
Nikki Kinzer:
And in your family, your wife does not have ADHD. So we've got two parents, one with ADHD, one without, and two kids that have ADHD.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, but who are we kidding? She has ADHD. She just has it by way of us.
Nikki Kinzer:
Right, yeah.
Pete Wright:
We call that ADHD by proxy.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yes.
Pete Wright:
She still has to live with all the frustrations. They're just not her own. Yeah. What I think is interesting ... So I always, I think, had a different relationship with the kids than my wife, by virtue of the fact that I could see my own frustrations in them. And you said our kids are young adults. Both of our kids are still living with us. They're more like roommates at this point, but my son is a senior in high school and still living with so many of the ADHD challenges that he acknowledges. There are the things that he lives with that make things hard. And some of it is just recognizing the social issues and social boundaries that he has as a result of what our ... We've talked about the ADHD age, chronology versus emotional age and psychosocial age.
And so watching all of those come together, I think, I always had an affinity for my kids with those kinds of issues because I also had it and have it. So I found that their frustrations didn't get to me as quickly as they might've gotten to my wife. And I think that's the first thing to notice, was when you see kids who are messy, disorganized, forgetful, missing deadlines, late, they do their homework and don't turn it in ... For me, with ADHD, I could see myself in them. And I think it was easier for me to find a sort of sad compassion, when my wife was looking at it from a much more proactive, pragmatic approach, like let's solve this problem. It's frustrating, it's hard to watch, and let's just solve the problem, and new systems and all of that. Does that relate?
Nikki Kinzer:
Well, yeah. And I think it's actually really similar to what I've found because even though I don't have ADHD, I understand it in a different way than somebody else that I live with who doesn't have it and parents in a little different way, because I understand what you're saying, because we had those conversations many times, my husband and I did, where he would get really frustrated with her room and I would be a little less frustrated, a little more giving about it.
And so I think really what we're coming to is that if you don't have ADHD, it's really important to learn about it. If you are living with someone with ADHD, really learn about it and understand it so that you do have that compassion because if you don't, then you're really fueling a lot of the fire of that self-doubt and shame that comes with it. So I think it's really important that we educate ourselves.
Pete Wright:
Right, right. And I think the other side of that argument, living with ADHD as a parent and having kids who don't have ADHD, what does that relationship look like? I mean, we've heard from folks, and I know when my kids are, and they're particularly ... They go through swings. And when their ADHD is not terribly present or when they're well-medicated and on top of things and feeling good and I'm not, there's a lot of shame that piles on as a parent, for not feeling like I'm able to live up to the expectations, even cultural or historical expectations of what Dad should be able to accomplish. And I use should heavily there, because that's what it feels like when I'm letting my kids down because of my relationship with my ADHD.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah, that's tough. It's tough because a lot of that is self-imposed.
Pete Wright:
Of course. Yeah.
Nikki Kinzer:
So it's a lot of ... We're really being too hard on ourselves.
Pete Wright:
But also sometimes it's not. Okay, I miss a pickup time and leave my kid at school, and they're just waiting, and I have to get a call from the school to be reminded to come pick up the kiddo. And the kiddo's young, elementary school, and suddenly I'm feeling shame that's self-imposed, and my kid's legitimately pissed off.
Nikki Kinzer:
So with that particular situation, just because you brought it up, and I think it's really helpful to have specifics because it's easier to talk about a specific situation than to do things so broadly. That is a perfect situation of, okay, this is what happened. I need to make sure that I support my ADHD and put in the structure so that this doesn't happen again. So what alarms do I need to put in? What kinds of reminders? What do I need to do so that I don't forget to pick him up? Because it is important that we do that.
But then we have to let the shame go. It's one of those things that then at that point, we have to be ... Okay, I got to let this go. I am going to apologize. Everybody makes mistakes. You're role-modeling to your child too. I made a mistake, I'm apologizing, and then now this is what I'm going to do to do better. That's a great model, versus Dad going into a shame spiral and beating himself up in front of his child, because now that child's going to think, "Well, if I make a mistake, I should beat myself up, because Dad did." And we have to be aware, because our kids watch. They watch everything that we do.
Pete Wright:
Absolutely. It's one of those things that is ... I'll drop my favorite P word besides my own name, which is perseverate. What about all my perseveration on my own guilt? Where does that go? Well, the fact is that doesn't serve anybody. It certainly doesn't serve me, and it absolutely doesn't serve my kid. And so that feels so much like the muscle to build the relationship again. I have to let go of the shame of missing the deadlines and focus on the next step. And blissfully, I'm years out of having to have lived through that experience, but that experience is still very real or I wouldn't bring it up.
Nikki Kinzer:
Sure, yeah. But I think it's important to also understand that this is not an experience that only ADHD parents have. I did the same thing.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, for sure.
Nikki Kinzer:
I forgot to pick up my son from football practice. Totally forgot. Just watching TV at home, doing nothing, and get the text or the phone call, like, "Mom, where are you?" And I'm like, "Ah, crap. Totally forgot." So these are not isolated events only for you guys either. So I think it's just important to understand that this isn't something that ... We all make mistakes, and that's what we need to let our children know. We all make mistakes.
And I think when they get to be a point where they're old enough, I would let them know I have ADHD, and these are some of my struggles, because again, you're accepting it. It's just part of it. You're not shaming ADHD. Your mom has ADHD. This stuff is hard. So you know what? You're probably not going to have the cleanest house in the world, but I'm always going to love you.
Pete Wright:
I made sure to let the kids know when they were diagnosed. As soon as they were in the boat, I made sure to let them know that I was in the boat too.
Nikki Kinzer:
Absolutely.
Pete Wright:
And set up a cot in the boat. I was living in the boat.
Nikki Kinzer:
Well, and that's beautiful because now they know when they're struggling with this, they can go to you. And not that they won't go to your wife, but they can go to you and get a little bit different perspective than they would necessarily from your wife. You're both there to support them, but you're in the boat with them. You're absolutely right. You're in the boat.
Pete Wright:
They're not alone. They're not alone in the family. They're not just going to be under a microscope all the time. Our family is the microscope. Figuring out what that family dynamic looks like as a result of those complicated relationships is messy.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yes, it is, because it affects everybody that you're living with, because it's not just about being late or forgetting something. It's a lot of other stuff too. And so yeah, there needs to be ... It's interesting because one of the things that I was thinking about when we were talking about this topic was when do you do too much and when do you stop? And I think that's also-
Pete Wright:
By too much, what do you mean?
Nikki Kinzer:
For your kids, because you have this empathy for your child. Going back to what ... And I don't know what type of empathy this is. I'm going to have to go back and study again from what Tamara had shared with us. But you're understanding them. You understand the struggle. So for example, if my daughter has a messy room, it's not going to serve her for me just to go in and clean it up because it's easier for me than it is for her. That's not going to serve her. And so what do you do? You want to be sure that you're teaching her something, but you're also allowing her to learn the circumstances of what happens if you don't clean the room. You know what I mean?
Pete Wright:
I do. And I want to ask that question. What are the circumstances? Because I often struggled with this. A brief aside, we make our bed every day, my wife and I, because somewhere along the way-
Nikki Kinzer:
Good for you. I don't.
Pete Wright:
Well, somewhere along the way, she read an article or heard a podcast somewhere where they said one of the signs of a great marriage is if you make the bed. Somewhere, they tied the bed. And it was like it's a sign that you're working on your marriage. If you take part in making on the bed, then it's a commitment to the shared relationship. And it started out as a total joke, and we would stand there in the morning and we would make the bed together. I'm working on the marriage. And it became a real sentiment, to the point where the other day, I made the bed and the dog went up upstairs and ruffled the bed to bury a bone in the sheets. And Kira went upstairs and came back down. She says, "Are we okay? I noticed the bed wasn't made, and I thought we made it and it wasn't made. And are we okay?" And I was like, "Oh my god, it's not my fault. It was the dog."
Nikki Kinzer:
Is that a sign that you're mad at me?
Pete Wright:
Yeah, exactly. Are we sending these subversive signs? But it really became ... The whole reason I'm talking about this is we found a reason to make the bed together. And the bed wasn't the point. The bed was not the point. So when I go to my kids' messy room and I say, "All right, come on. What are you doing? Let's clean up your room. Let's wash the sheets. Let's make the bed. Let's do some things." Why? Why do I feel strongly about that? And I'm not asking you to answer for me. I'm suggesting I should have an answer for that before I tell the kiddo why it's important to understand those skills, because just making the bed, who cares?
Nikki Kinzer:
Right. Yeah, yeah. Well, my daughter learned the hard lesson of why. When you don't clean your dishes or take the dishes out of your room and they still have a lot of food on them, ants come.
Pete Wright:
Oh, well then it's ants. Yeah. That's always ants.
Nikki Kinzer:
Ants come. And we don't like ants. We don't like living with ants.
Pete Wright:
But it's different. We also have the ant issue. And I think having the ant issue is important to recognize, but that's why none of us eat in our bedrooms, because we don't want ants. We have a vigilant battle against ants in our neighborhood. But the real issue then is clutter. Let's just say I have a kiddo who's actually doing okay in schools, managing to stay up on top of stuff, and the room's a disaster. What's the case I have to make, apart from my historical standard of how I was raised by my parents, that they should have a clean room?
And if I don't have an answer for that, if I'm asking them to clean their room because I was made to have a clean room, then that's just paying it forward, the worst crap, right? They need to have an answer to why they need a clean room. If they have a messy room and they can't find stuff when they need it, that's a problem. And now they have a reason. The reason I'm helping you clean your room is because you keep losing crap, man. You got to stay on top of your stuff. But if I can't connect it to a reason, they can't connect it to a reason.
Nikki Kinzer:
That's very true. I mean, it's very true. So then that's where the coaching comes in, is really asking questions, like, "Does this bother you? Is this something that you've tried to clean up? What's the history here?" And if they say, "No, it's perfectly fine. I know where everything is, and it's great," then I'm the person that then just goes back downstairs and not pay attention to it. I don't care. But I think your point is really good because when we do care, it probably is being handed down by something that we were taught to be ... This is the standard.
And then I think there's also a question there. And again, this comes from the experience of what ADHD is, is saying, "Do you need help with this? Do you want me to help you?" Because then that opens the door to say, "Yes, I would love your help, because I don't know where to start. I don't like living like this, but I don't know what to do." So as a teenager or a young person who doesn't know how to say that or doesn't know how to express what they're feeling, you can take that in and ask, "Would this help if I helped you?" Because when you start asking questions and you don't demand things, you get a very different conversation. It's very different.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. This is all about, first, learning how to ask the right questions, and second, learning how to listen. And those are two very different skills.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. Oh, for sure.
Pete Wright:
A lot of people know how to ask questions, and if they don't know how to listen, they're just jerks, right? Questions are just half of communication. So I think it's really smart to be able to ask both your kiddo, you're right, "Do you need help with this thing you're struggling with?" Because objectively, from my perspective, it's not meeting the standard that society, if it's a school-related thing, or hygiene, if you're living in filth and you are sick all the time and there are ants in your room. You're not living at a standard where we're hitting a point where you're going to be able to leave the house and live a healthy life with other people.
Nikki Kinzer:
Well, and that's the thing that I kind of jumped to too, is that because our kids are the ages they are, I think about ... Okay, when they're in a dorm and they're with someone else, we probably need to educate them on how to maybe pick this up or whatever, because they may not know.
Pete Wright:
How to adapt.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. How to adapt. Yeah, for sure. I've worked with a lot of college students in the past, and I know that every once in a while, it comes up where roommates get frustrated and they are asking me, "How can I help the situation?" And it usually is just a pickup. It's usually just putting things away, just making sure things have a place. But that doesn't come naturally for your ADHD 18-year-old. So again, as a parent, whether you have ADHD or not, those are the things you want to listen and look for, and how can you help them with that? And even if you're a messy ADHD person, you can still help your child in a dorm situation. I mean, you still can help them with that. So I think having that understanding, but also knowing when you have to teach them to be on their own and what's that going to look like when they're on their own.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Well, and I keep coming back to this communication piece, especially when my kids were younger teens and didn't know how to communicate effectively and communicated through extremes, either hid from hard emotions through laughter or expressed hard emotions through anger. There's a lot of extreme activity going on in the emotion. And that gets in the way of being able to have those kinds of questions, or have those kinds of conversations.
Nikki Kinzer:
How do you not take it personally when someone says, "I hate you. You're the worst person ever. You're ruining my life," and then they go upstairs and slam their door? How do you not take that personally? It's really hard. Yeah, yeah.
Pete Wright:
And how do they get past it? How do you help them get past it, to be able to say, "I know I have ants in my room." I'm using ants metaphorically now. I recognize I have ants in my room and I need help. How do you condition them through those extremes of emotion to be able to practice stepping back and asking for what they need as they become aware of that need in their life?
Nikki Kinzer:
Well, and there has to be a gap in time between when the interaction happens and when you do what you just said, because-
Pete Wright:
Because you can't communicate in the extreme.
Nikki Kinzer:
You can't. I mean, it's just too heightened. And emotions are everywhere for everyone, so you have to have a little bit of space. So as an adult, it's our responsibility to remember we're the adult and we need to take that step back, and give yourself that space.
And honestly, depending on what issues and things you're dealing with at home, I am a big advocate for family therapists to help us go through this. We saw a few different ones in our periods of different stages of our kids growing up, because as a parent, it feels so isolated. Your child is doing something and you feel like no one is going to understand, and it's only your child, and none of my friends have this issue. My family's never had this issue, so I don't know what to do. And you throw your hands up in the air and you just hope it's going to be okay, but then that's when you need to get help because then I can talk to somebody who has experience with these kinds of behavior things, and give us the tools that we need to act in that moment. And hindsight's 20/20. I mean, there's tons of things I would have done differently if I had the chance to do it again.
Pete Wright:
Especially because I focus on the space between these two areas, that when I'm compromised with my ADHD, I have a hard time explaining the rationale behind the things I'm asking of my kids or the things even I'm asking of myself. And when I'm not compromised, I have a hard time understanding my kids in a compromised state. And that's where that space in between, those two emotional constructs, is fraught. It is absolutely fraught.
And so I think first, being able to be aware that I'm stuck in the liminal space between the communications is really important, to be able to step aside and say, "I can't rationalize why I need you to clean your room. And I can't see ants right now. Maybe this isn't a good time to have this conversation because otherwise I'd just get mad." I'm just letting myself get wrapped up in the dizziness of a need that I cannot understand its purpose. And so I feel like that gets in the way of a lot of family communication.
Nikki Kinzer:
Absolutely. And again, I'm going to circle back to the ... There's something that a therapist told us a couple of years ago when Paige was dealing with her eating disorder. And this one sentence made such an impact on us when she was acting in a way that was not nice. And the therapist said, "It's not her. It's the eating disorder." And so she said, "Whenever you hear or see her act out, remember, it's not her. It's the eating disorder." And for me, that was a huge thing.
Now I know ADHD and eating disorder are two different things, but sometimes they collide, which is what happened with her. And so you have the intense emotions. You have this control thing that you're fighting inside of yourself. And you're mad at your parents because your parents are trying to help you. But I think that that was really helpful for us to not take it so personally, is to remember, okay, this is what this is. And so again, I think that that's us having to be the adult in the relationship, to be able to see that, because she's not going to see that at 16 years old. So I think that, going back to what you're saying, figuring out why we're asking what we're asking or what we're doing, and then also being able to work through not taking it personal when we don't get the response that we want.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. And so I feel like it's important to think about ... Everything that you're talking about has triggered me in a great way, because we need to talk about how to actually build a better cycle of communication, both implicit and explicit communication. The explicit communication is let's figure out how to build those muscles and learn to have conversations that are hard. The implicit communication, I feel like is ... It takes me back to my favorite emergent behavior metaphors. The fact that when you say, "It's not her, it's her eating disorder," the eating disorder and the relationship with her and her identity causes new behaviors to emerge that are negative in her life.
When I think about our house ... Let's go back to the ant thing. So the problem is what I want to say is, "Stop eating in your room because of the ants," but what happens if that's not an easy thing to actually get turned over in the house? That's legislation you're never going to pass in the family because nobody really is attached to that. Maybe the rule is not about the food, but about the dishes. Maybe the rule is dishes don't leave the kitchen. Or maybe the rule is dishes have to be in the dishwasher after every time you eat because we're losing dishes. It's not about your behavior around eating. It's about ... Dishes leave the kitchen. I'm not saying anything about dishes being in their room. I'm saying dishes are not in the kitchen. And that's where, as a family, if we can agree on that family rule, what are the emergent behaviors that come out of that that actually allow us to stop the ants? The emergent behavior is the dishes don't go into the bedroom, if we all agree.
Nikki Kinzer:
Right, and I love that. I love that solution because it's also not putting any kind of blame on anyone or shaming anyone for doing anything. This is just sort of a general-
Pete Wright:
Taking equal responsibility.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. And so I think the more you can do of that, the better, because there's a book ... We actually have talked about him before because I saw him at an ADHD conference, and he talked about the influence that we have over our children, and how we have influence but not control. And it's Ross Greene, and it's The Explosive Child.
Pete Wright:
Okay. Look at all the sticky notes in that book. You read the heck out of that.
Nikki Kinzer:
I did, because I had one of these and it was not an easy ... And if you've listened to the podcast for long enough, you know who I'm talking about. But yeah. I have underlined things. I have the little pages ear-folded and everything. But this was recommended to me from a therapist. It was one of the best books because it really does help you with communication, especially with explosive children. And explosive children can not have ADHD but have anxiety, and have just really a hard time managing their emotions, and that's what I dealt with with my older son. So yeah. Anyway, want to recommend that because I just think it's a great tool for people and for parents to think about when they're in those hard, hard, hard situations.
Pete Wright:
And so if we take that back to the idea of emergent behavior and using emergent behavior as a tool, thinking about the things that are causing that level of strife and being able to numb them by not necessarily addressing that problem head-on, the problem that triggers the explosive behavior, but triggering it around the next corner, or addressing it around the next corner that says there might be another way we change the routine in the house that causes new behavior to emerge. It might be intentional behavior, and at least being aware of unintentional behavior.
When things start to go out of hand, what changed? What changed in the way our family routine works that has caused something else to trigger other people in the family in a way that is out of concert with peace? So I mean, as I'm saying it, it sounds like manipulation, but I manipulate myself all the time. Emergent behavior is huge, right? This is what alarms are. And I think that's really important to at least recognize, that you can collectively manipulate yourselves as a family and all be totally in agreement on it. And things change.
Nikki Kinzer:
Absolutely.
Pete Wright:
Things will change.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. This was great. Thank you, Pete.
Pete Wright:
I think so too. So we have a couple of episodes I'll put in the show notes. The ADHD Podcast 358, Mindful Listening with Rebecca Shafir, which is all on that idea of learning to ask and answer questions. Really great episode. And of course, Tamara Rosier. We could learn from her all the livelong day.
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh, all the time.
Pete Wright:
We've talked to her a couple of times. We'll put links to her episodes in the notes as well. These are great resources that continue the conversation on building through the breakdowns of communication and relationships between ADHD parents and kids, in whatever combination they may be.
So thank you, everyone, for hanging out with us today. Thanks for hanging out. We appreciate your time and attention. Don't forget, if you have something to contribute to the conversation, head over to the show talk channel in the Discord server, and you can join us right there by becoming a supporting member at the deluxe level or better. On behalf of Nikki Kinzer, I'm Pete Wright, and we'll see you right back here next week on Taking Control: The ADHD Podcast.
