460: The 2020 Memory Lane with Pete & Nikki
This week, we’re taking a bit of time to reflect. No, 2020 hasn’t been the best year in recent memory. But does that mean we didn’t learn, grow, and change? Of course we did! Today, we talk about it.
We’re sharing insights from clients and community members, guests on the show and more. Plus we have a list of tools that might just come in handy which we’ve adopted this year and have led to a little change in their own right.
Links & Notes
- YouNeedABudget
- Mission Forward
- The Change Paradox
- How to Split a Toaster
- What's That Smell Season 5(!)
- Obsidian
- Roam Research
- GoodLinks
- Affinity Design Tools from Serif
- Coda.io
Episode Transcript
Brought to you by The ADHD Podcast Community on Patreon
Pete Wright: Hello, everybody, and welcome to Taking Control, the ADHD podcast on TruStory FM. I'm Pete Wright, and I'm here with Nikki Kinzer.
Nikki Kinzer: Hello, everyone. Hello, Pete Wright.
Pete Wright: Oh, Nikki, this is it. It's our last show of the year.
Nikki Kinzer: Last show of the year, right before Christmas.
Pete Wright: [crosstalk 00:00:24] What are we going to do with ourselves?
Nikki Kinzer: Go on a little vacation.
Pete Wright: Oh.
Nikki Kinzer: At home.
Pete Wright: Okay.
Nikki Kinzer: Where we've been in the last year.
Pete Wright: So, we're going to stay at home and not leave the house?
Nikki Kinzer: Yeah.
Pete Wright: It's going to be great. We're actually talking about that. We decided to take a little bit of time today and reflect on some of the lessons learned over 2020. I hope we make this interesting and not just self-righteous, naval-gazing.
Nikki Kinzer: I know, right?
Pete Wright: I think our list of things to talk about are good, and they bring back, believe it or not, some darn fine memories of this year. What a weird thing to come out of the raging dumpster fire that is 2020. But, my goodness, we have learned some things and we're going to talk about it. Before we do that, head over to takecontroladhd.com, get to know us a little bit better. You can listen to the show right there on the website or subscribe to the mailing list, and we will send you an email with a new episode each week. Connect with us on Twitter or Facebook, @takecontroladhd. And don't forget, we are on a journey to our next Patreon tier. If you haven't considered becoming a member of patreon.com/theadhdpodcast, we would love it if you would consider it right away. As we record this, we need 16, [inaudible 00:01:37] 16 or 14. I don't have it open all of a sudden. It is 16 more people, to join us, we'll hit our next tier. We're on the cusp of releasing our next resource library, of all the resources we've talked about on the show. We get a lot of requests all the time of people who want to know when we talked about this such and such a thing. So, we've put all the such and such a things, verified all the links and all the resources we've ever talked about over the last 10 years, and we put them in a big Codafile. Thanks to Melissa, Discord mom, she's done a ton of work already, more to come. We need a little bit more help. Our new goal; 200 patrons to get us over the hump, 16 more and we are there. So, thank you very much. I do have an announcement. Can I talk about an announcement?
Nikki Kinzer: Of course.
Pete Wright: Speaking of internal naval-gazers, we're changing the time that we record this show in 2021, Nikki.
Nikki Kinzer: Yes, we are. Do you want to say why? Or I should say why?
Pete Wright: You should say why, yeah.
Nikki Kinzer: I should say why, yes. I'm not exactly ready to talk about this yet, so I'm just going to plant the seed, because I've been working really hard in the last a month to get it ready to talk about. But, I am offering a new service in January, and it's going to be around planning. I need the time open for Mondays to do one of the planning sessions. So, I asked dear Pete Wright, "Is there any way that we could possibly move our recording time?" and-
Pete Wright: And I said, "Yes."
Nikki Kinzer: And you said, "Yes."
Pete Wright: Spoiler alert. Yeah, I did.
Nikki Kinzer: You said yes, so it makes room for me to be able to offer a new service, which we will be talking about at some point very soon. If you're on my newsletter, you're going to get it there. If you're a Patreon member, you're going to hear it there. So, if you're not on one of those things, you might want to sign up so you hear about what's going on in 2020, 202031.
Pete Wright: That's right.
Nikki Kinzer: 2021.
Pete Wright: So 2021.
Nikki Kinzer: Not 2020.
Pete Wright: We are changing the recording times moving from right now, it's 10:00 AM US Pacific. It'll be 1:00 PM US Pacific time, on Mondays, beginning our first show, January 4th. So, don't worry, I will still send out the emails through Patreon and post in Discord, and on Facebook. All the reminders will be there, but just in case, just know we've got a change, so we appreciate your flexibility. If you'd like to join us for the live stream, we appreciate you there. Anyway, check out all the other resources and access to the live stream, and all those goodies @patreon.com/theadhdpodcast. All right, Nikki.
Nikki Kinzer: All right.
Pete Wright: 2020.
Nikki Kinzer: 2020.
Pete Wright: Light it up.
Nikki Kinzer: Yes, last episode of the year. All right, so-
Pete Wright: What'd you learn, what'd you learn? How do you want to talk about this?
Nikki Kinzer: I thought we could just take a little bit of time to reflect on our past year. If we really want to do that or not, I don't know, but we're here, [inaudible 00:04:50]. But there were some good things, right? There were some good things, I think, for us to highlight. There were some really great experiences that I got to share with some of my clients that I wanted to talk about, and maybe just talk about some of the shows that really resonated with us during this time. I'll tell you, at the beginning of the year, I think everybody had high expectations of 2020. It's a great year just because it's 2020, it sounds great. I know that with a couple of my clients, we had set up 2020 goals, similar to what we talk about when we were talking about the joy bucket list, when we were talking about how to bring joy into your life. Well, this was-
Pete Wright: Well, we made it... We made those great vision jokes.
Nikki Kinzer: Yes.
Pete Wright: But nobody saw it coming, 2020.
Nikki Kinzer: 2020, all of that.
Pete Wright: January was full of amazing jobs. Mwah! Chef's kiss.
Nikki Kinzer: Yes, thinking that we're going to get all of this new fun stuff in. Of course, none of that actually happened, everything changed in March. For me on a personal level though, I do want to talk a little bit about the journey I had in January and February, just because many of you know, that I had to fight a little bit to get my daughter diagnosed with ADHD, because as you guys have heard in the Inattentive episodes, it was very difficult to get her teachers to understand or see what I see, and even her primary doctor. That was quite the journey of finding a psychiatrist who would sit down and actually do the testing and come back with the results that I had already known, but I needed to have confirmed. So, that was certainly a personal issue that we had to go through. March came. March, spring break. It was around spring break here in Oregon, where the school said, "Oh, we're going to take two weeks of spring break, and you'll be back April something." Do you remember that?
Pete Wright: Yeah, I do, I do, because we hunkered down.
Nikki Kinzer: We did.
Pete Wright: We did our part for sure.
Nikki Kinzer: Yeah, and then two weeks became the rest of the year, but there was still a lot of uncertainty of what was going to happen. You and I definitely, I thought, got right on it with getting some great guests on the show to talk about COVID-
Pete Wright: Yeah, they were ready.
Nikki Kinzer: ... And talk about the anxiety, and I think all of them, we had James Ochoa, Dr. Michele Frank, Dr. Dodge Rea. He did an online meditation with me. Hello! That's not uncomfortable to do that in front of people, it's kind of weird. Caroline Maguire talking to us about how to talk to our children during this time, which is actually a really fitting conversation too, because prior to her being on, she was talking about social cues, and how to help our ADHD children be more social, or at least be able to interact, and then all of a sudden that's taken away, so that was very interesting. Dr. Doug also talked to us about the pandemic anxiety. It was interesting to get experts' different perspectives, and going along with us as we were in this kind of unknown territory.
Pete Wright: Yeah, I think that we had that exuberance of transitioning from the stuff we were really excited about; entrepreneurial-ism. We actually did this episode in February; ADHD Accommodations at Work and Working from Home, in February.
Nikki Kinzer: Yes, in February.
Pete Wright: What? I did not know that we could read the future, but we could, it turns out. That is an episode that has gotten, as you can imagine, some attraction. In terms of skills, there are some things that I've learned from the people that we've talked about, and in terms of skills and behavior changes, I've end up... The people I keep referencing after this year, absolutely Marilyn Paul, on the Haunt List. I love that episode, Dr. Marilyn Paul was just great. Meeting Ross Barkley, he was just so great, and learned so much about his exuberance for being just such a firebrand about ADHD and how dangerous it is, was amazing.
Nikki Kinzer: So kind too, so kind, for being Dr. Barkley, the Dr. Barkley. It was such an honor. Yes, one thing that really struck me with his conversation, was how serious ADHD, and how he referenced it to be the diabetes of mental health. I have told people that over and over again, because that really hit hard.
Pete Wright: Yeah, and I think people understand it. When you hear that comparison, suddenly it makes sense. My behavior changes though, I've also adapted some of my own personal note-taking, thanks to Mike Rody from Sketchnoting. That was really fun.
Nikki Kinzer: That was really fun.
Pete Wright: [crosstalk 00:09:56] worked up on that, that was really great. Oh, my goodness, Chelsea Brennan from Smart Money Mamas, called me, "Mama" on a podcast, and that was amazing. Plus the tool she recommende, YNAB, youneedabudget.com, completely changed my life. I think that is the-
Nikki Kinzer: It did, me too.
Pete Wright: It's just a number one thing, just because I've been looking for a money metaphor that works with my brain, and that nailed it. I've been looking for years, nothing has ever worked for me until YNAB, and so I would say that's a real high point for me-
Nikki Kinzer: I would say that too.
Pete Wright: ... In terms of new tools and behaviors.
Nikki Kinzer: Absolutely, I've never really had a budget like that, where it worked. I've budgeted things, but I'm sure like everybody else, you start it, you look at it, and then it kind of goes away or it doesn't work well or whatever. But, YNAB has definitely been something that I have stuck with, and even this weekend I was going through it, and I saw a charge, and I asked my husband about it and he's like, "Oh yeah, that was from this, but I deposited the money." And I'm like, "Oh you did. I see it's a wash." I was able to see what he bought and how he deposited the money to cover it. It was just awesome to be able to see all of that. That is definitely something that changed me as well. I'll tell you something that changed with me with Marilyn Paul too, was just the importance of rest, taking a day off, and not feeling guilty about it. Just take the shoulds out, take the to-do list out. That was really, I think, important to hear.
Pete Wright: Yeah, I put that on one of my big lessons learned too, was just understanding what rest really is, and we can talk about that more in a bit, but it was... That was a big one for me too.
Nikki Kinzer: Yeah, I also really appreciated Dr. Michele Frank and Tara Koch, for talking about inattentive ADHD, and how the diagnosis can be so easily missed, that tied into certainly the diagnosis of my daughter. But for Tara to come on the show and share her story, that was really brave, and when you're not used to podcasting, you're not used to talking about yourself. That can be really scary, and so I really appreciated her coming in, and being so honest about that.
Pete Wright: Well, you couldn't tell.
Nikki Kinzer: No.
Pete Wright: She's an old hat at this stuff. It seems like... You would never know that any of this is new to her, she's great.
Nikki Kinzer: Yeah, absolutely [crosstalk 00:12:25], absolutely. I want to talk a little bit about my clients, because, oh my gosh, they've been amazing during this time. The first thing I noticed when I was working with clients is how much they related to the pandemic, how so many people said, "This is how I feel every day, it's hard to focus every day, and now people are telling me it's hard to focus for them, because of this, this, and this." It was really interesting to hear how some of my clients were able to really share what they knew, to help others. There was one of my clients, who's a doctorate student and she was actually even recognized at the end of the last semester, of spring semester, for helping other people, by putting together study halls and body double sessions, and check-ins, so that people would stay on schedule. She did that, and that was really cool to be able to see how they can take their own daily experience and help others in times that maybe aren't used to having, to have a body double all the time or whatever, so that was really cool to see. Resilience is something I think every ADHDier has, and seeing the clients adjust from working from home. I had many people... That was probably the biggest struggle that I saw with my clients, is, "Here I am, I'm used to working in an office, I'm used to having that structure, some accountability, and now I'm just at home." Many of my people that I work with, live on their own, so they didn't have a necessarily, a family or a partner, they were by themselves, which is really hard to be, that isolated and also to have really no structure, and now you have to adapt to this, which is kind of an ADHD nightmare in some cases. It's important to see how many of them were able to figure it out and were able to ask for help, and they were so much more compassionate with themselves and really being able to see, "Okay, I'm not the only one dealing with this, it doesn't have to be perfect, the expectations aren't necessarily the same." Just all of the kind of conversations we would go through week after week, and seeing them being able to adapt, was really awesome. It was just really inspiring. I also just want to say, thank you, thank you so much for my clients. I learned from them every day, how amazing they are and how inspirational they are. So, after me having a hard day, I would think back and think, "Okay, I can do this. I can also sit in the unknown and be uncomfortable. They kept showing up, I can keep showing up." They helped me just as much as I helped them, so that was something that I think, well, I know I'm very grateful for, and I appreciate from the year, is that I didn't feel like I was alone either. I was going through this with the people I was meeting with every day.
Pete Wright: I was thinking about that too. In terms of the year being terrible, I'll also remember it for a lot of really, really good things that came out of the year. Maybe it was because of the extended continuous downtime and reflection time, right?
Nikki Kinzer: Right.
Pete Wright: There were, weirdly, fewer internal distractions, because of all the giant external distractions, and I managed to make some kind of significant change. We rebranded Rash Pixel, my podcast company to TruStory FM, unreal synchronicity with Melissa, Discord mom. I could not be happier with what came out of that. She was just super inspirational, and helping me revision what the company that I do, that I sort of shepherd here does, I took on a business partner, and Andy Nelson who doesn't have ADHD. I'm consistently reminded of my relationship with you because it's just easy. It's just one of those things, it's a calming balance. I think from finding somebody who's kind of... Another accountability partner is really just energizing, even when energy is low. We launched new podcasts, we launched Mission Forward, which is a podcast about social justice and equity, and The Change Paradox, with Dr. Dodge Rea, it's getting some great comments and reviews, I'm very happy with that. You were on it, and it was great. How To Split a Toaster, a divorce podcast we launched. We're finally back around to What's That Smell, season five, with Tommy. I'm just really excited about the growth, but mostly to your point, I'm so inspired by the way my clients navigated COVID. Demonstrating grace and generosity with their clients and the people they work with. It made me so proud to do what I do, and be involved with the people with whom I share orbit, because this is hard for everybody. It was just so powerful to watch everybody interact and try to keep each other afloat.
Nikki Kinzer: Yes, very much so.
Pete Wright: That's pretty powerful for me.
Nikki Kinzer: Well, and more on personal lessons, not just from work, but just personally going through 2020, I've learned to take care of my own mental health. Saying, "No," when I need to. I do not remember, I honestly don't remember which episode, but there was something that triggered in me when I was feeling very overwhelmed. I remember thinking, "I just need to sit where I am right now, and I need to just be here, and be okay with that, and be okay with being unsettled, letting other people know what I need." I remember telling my family at one point, "I just can't talk anymore, I've talked all day. I need to just be alone, because that's part of my introverted self." But most importantly, I'm a mother of teens and parenting teens at the beginning of this year was fine, it was no big deal, but it got harder, and harder, and harder. The last couple of months it's been extremely, extremely difficult, and I've had to just surrender and breathe, and remember what I have control over and what I don't, and honestly pray that we're all going to get through this okay. It's not just about COVID, but it's very true when, especially teenagers, when you see statistics out there about them being isolated. Depression comes into play, anxiety comes into play, social media, just a lot of different things. I think it's really important to reach out for help when you need it, get what you need and not feel guilty about it. I started doing HelloFresh meals about two months ago, and I am not feeling guilty about it, because it does make things easier. Also like what Marilyn Paul said, "Being okay," if I just need a day to do nothing. I just need to rest and be okay with that. I think there was a lot of good things in that too. And not always having to be positive. I think that's... It's hard, because my nature is, "I want to be positive and I want to be like, 'Oh, look at the bright side.'" But sometimes it's hard to do that, because it just takes too much energy, so it's okay to just let that energy be saved for a different day, and just be in it.
Pete Wright: I had those, I definitely had that one for me. When you think... The 2020 for me personally, is largely marked by COVID, and it completely rewired my relationship with physical and emotional health. It's just... It was so incredibly debilitating for just long enough. But patience, as much as I'm dealing with like a long haul stuff, I'm learning patience every day. I kind of am surprised that here I am, at my age, still learning lessons that at some level feel rudimentary. It's humbling, it's really humbling. Rest, we talked about Marilyn Paul's lessons for us, rest means rest, and I wasn't doing this well. My rest would be not working, but it would be doing other things, and that's not what rest is. Learning how to rest... Perspective has demonstrated repeatedly, the value of rest for me. You talked about parenting teens, I would say as a spin off of that; learning to be present through new kinds of grief and anger with those closest to me, because they don't know how to do this any better than I do. I know I'm mad and testy and I'm... But figuring out how to be present and patient with one another, living in close quarters for so long without the interaction of other faces, and hugs and things like that, I feel like I'm learning some lessons there too. Like how do you express kindness when, weirdly, you're the last person they want to see right now. I am the vessel of that frustration for three other people I live with sometimes, as they are to me.
Nikki Kinzer: Kudos to all of those parents that have young kids too. Oh, my! There's a lot of stress there, with working from home and daycare, or probably no daycare, trying to figure out how to do all of that, and being an online teacher. So yes, we've all had our struggles, for sure.
Pete Wright: I have one more section that you didn't have.
Nikki Kinzer: Oh, tell me more about this.
Pete Wright: It's new, it's not grim either, it's exciting. It's new tools for 2020. Things that you did, and adopted, and invested in, that changed the way you work, for 2020.
Nikki Kinzer: Can I just tell you something before you start this? Roam Research, one of my clients was like, "I know exactly what he's talking about." He was right with you in that whole conversation.
Pete Wright: I actually... I should share a link. I... Wow, I read a Twitter storm about Roam Research and their software development methodology, and it's challenged, and it makes me really nervous about Roam. It's an amazing tool, and I did... Anyway, my new tools for 2020. This is what I've done, first of all, I migrated my notes to Obsidian.
Nikki Kinzer: Obsidian.
Pete Wright: Obsidian. It's... Don't do this, Nikki. I'm going to put a link in the show notes. I need you not to click on it. It's going to break your brain. I recognize that's... Not that you can't do it, because I think you would love it, I think you would lose patience in it very quickly.
Nikki Kinzer: Yes.
Pete Wright: Here we go.
Nikki Kinzer: And I have a lot to do this week before I go on vacation.
Pete Wright: Yes, you have a lot to do.
Nikki Kinzer: I have a lot to do.
Pete Wright: Please don't click on Obsidian. I really like Obsidian, it gives me what I liked about Roam Research. I started to experience data loss with Roam Research, and part of it is because it operates 100% in the browser. For people who know what I'm talking about, if you have... If you, like I did, migrated thousands of files, of text files into Roam Research, and start typing on a block, and suddenly the text goes away, it's just gone, it's just gone. Part of that, is because it operates in the browser. It is incredibly fragile, and I just learned this, this weekend. So-
Nikki Kinzer: Are you saying Obsidian took over Evernote?
Pete Wright: Yeah, I'm out of Evernote.
Nikki Kinzer: Okay, now I am so curious, because now I got to go check out Obsidian.
Pete Wright: No, it's going to be a lot.
Nikki Kinzer: Really?
Pete Wright: It's basically a glorified Wiki, but what I love about, is it lives on my system and it's a series of just text files. Obsidian puts them all together and it kills... It shows you this graph that... Same thing with Roam Research. The whole benefit of these two tools is they show you a graph of how your notes are connected to one another. Every time I type ADHD podcast, I can see a visual graph with arrows that show the weighted relevance between these two notes when they reference one another, even if I don't intend to reference them. You can start building a set of research notes that relate to topics, and it uncovers things you... Connections, you never thought of, and it's amazing. I put 5,000 notes into Obsidian, and I have this graph that looks like a brain, and I can zoom in and click around in it and see, like, "What have I been working on over the years?" "What are the subject areas that I am constantly coming back to," and I find it incredibly inspirational. It's teaching me about my experience, and I never saw it coming. So, that's obsidian, it's a nerd tool, it's open source, it's free, it's definitely free, so there you go. I got out of Evernote. I am still looking for a paperless system, and I think I'm going to go back to the metal on this. I think I'm going to be using just OCR, PDFs, in leaving in My File system without... And just using the file system search, to search for a document.
Nikki Kinzer: Are you talking file system, like in your computer?
Pete Wright: Yeah, in the computer.
Nikki Kinzer: Not Dropbox, just in your computer?
Pete Wright: For mine, it would be on my... I have a network storage device, and it would all live on my network storage device, which I feel like is probably the simplest and cheapest way for me to go. So, I'm reducing expenses. I was such an Evernote fan for so long, and it's just... They're doing a ton of great work over there, and if you don't have the momentum or inertia to look for something else, don't do it because it's a lot of work, you got to really want to move, but I think I've landed-
Nikki Kinzer: Yeah, you can't just move halfway.
Pete Wright: Yeah, you can't move halfway, so I'm out of Evernote, and I think I'm okay, I think I'm okay. I did... I adopted a new tool called GoodLinks, which is a wonderful little app that I use to replace my Instapaper, kind of read-later services. I really like GoodLinks. You just... It creates a little share extension in your browser, and you hit it and send URLs to GoodLinks, and it downloads the content of the page so that you can read it offline later, and save it in your own place. It's equivalent to the Evernote web clipper, but GoodLinks' sort of replaced that. For me-
Nikki Kinzer: Does it go into a category, or just goes into an inbox and you categorize it later?
Pete Wright: You can categorize it. You can, even as you're doing it. It brings up a little share sheet and you type in, the tags, categories. If I'm downloading an article on anxiety for What's That Smell, I'll type... The tag will be WTS, and another tag WTS 502, so that I can look at the tag for all the resources that I'm calling together for the second episode of season five, and they'll all show up under that tag, so I can keep them all in one place. Very, very handy
Nikki Kinzer: Wow, that sounds interesting.
Pete Wright: It is very interesting. I've migrated all my design work to the Affinity products after years, and years, and years, and investment with Adobe. Mostly, I'm still a Lightroom user, but a lot of my photo and design work is in Affinity, and a little bit in Sketch, and so that was a big change in 2020. I've organized pretty much my whole business with Coda.io, which I love. They're doing great work, and of course, YNAB, You Need a Budget, is great. So those are my... I know I surprised you with this. Do you have any new tools for 2020 that you use?
Nikki Kinzer: [crosstalk 00:29:31] Well, YNAB, obviously we've already talked about. No, but I'm really curious about your GoodLinks, and I am curious about Obsidian. First of all, I think it's a cool name, Obsidian.
Pete Wright: It is a cool name.
Nikki Kinzer: The problem I have with Evernote is, it's just not working for me quite the way I need it to, so I definitely think I'm in a place where I need to review where I keep things, and how I keep them. I use Google docs a lot, I have that a lot, I use that a lot, and Dropbox, but it's almost like everybody else. It's much... Too many things and too many different areas, that I don't always know where to find stuff, and that gets frustrating. I think I'm in the market of finding some new things, so you're giving me some ideas.
Pete Wright: All right, maybe 2021, this is going to be a whole new conversation with Nikki Kinzer.
Nikki Kinzer: I am sticking with things though, as my task manager.
Pete Wright: Things is great. Oh, I have one more that was introduced to me, but will be, I think, something for 2021. That's a new app called Craft, which is brand new, and getting a ton, a ton of buzz. And honestly, I think that might be a solution for you because it is-
Nikki Kinzer: Craft.
Pete Wright: ... It fits your design sensibilities. I think you will look at it and find it beautiful.
Nikki Kinzer: Okay. I'll check it out. Is it new? Like I don't... I can't get it now?
Pete Wright: Yeah, it's available. You can get it now.
Nikki Kinzer: Oh, I can get it now?
Pete Wright: You can get it, there's a-
Nikki Kinzer: Oh boy.
Pete Wright: We should talk about Craft.
Nikki Kinzer: I still have a lot of work to do this week though. I have to remember I have to get this stuff done. So-
Pete Wright: There's going to be great.
Nikki Kinzer: It is. On a closing note, I think... Thinking about going into the new year, I have a lot of hope. I have a lot of hope and I think that it's great. These vaccines, whether... I don't care really what your opinion is on them, because that's not what this is about, but there are vaccines coming, which is great. I think, as we talked about what we learned before, taking one day at a time and being okay with that, so I'm not planning a whole lot right now, except for these things that Pete has now put in my brain with new software.
Pete Wright: I love to serve.
Nikki Kinzer: You love to serve. But again, I just want to say thank you to everyone who has been with us this last year, and the years before that, and the years before that, and hopefully coming along with us in this journey going forward. We just really appreciate all of you. Thank you for all the nice notes and the comments, because we thrive on those. We get these little nice comments and it makes our heart just warm and so thankful for what we do. Thank you everyone, thank you so much.
Pete Wright: Thank you. Yeah, let's end it on a high note. Toast somebody you love and we'll see you in 2020.
Nikki Kinzer: 2021.
Pete Wright: 2021, oh my gosh.
Nikki Kinzer: I know.
Pete Wright: I've already done it.
Nikki Kinzer: So hard.
Pete Wright: We sure appreciate you. For this year and next year, we appreciate you downloading and listening to this show. Thanks for all your time and attention. Don't forget, if you want to chat about it, head over to the show talk channel in Discord, you can join us over there. First step is going to be patreon.com/theadhdpodcast. Then you can jump over to the show notes channel, or show talk channel, and hang out with us there. On behalf of Nikki Kinzer, I'm Pete Wright. We'll see you right back here next year on Taking Control, the ADHD podcast.
