Learning Out Loud: ADHD Advocacy with Rach Idowu

May 24

Rach Idowu was diagnosed with ADHD Combined Type in January 2020, just before her London ADHD clinic closed down due to the pandemic. Undaunted, she started AdultingADHD on Substack and began to document her own personal experience and the research she would go on to do about her ADHD.

Since then, she has been featured in the New York Times, Inverse, and Mashable, and has been a featured panelist at Facebook, Ubisoft ComicCon London, and other organizations talking about ADHD in the workplace.

Along the way, she created a series of flashcards designed to help those with ADHD and supporting ADHDers to better understand details of ADHD that reflect the research she has engaged in over the years. You can find them at ADHDTraits.com.

Links & Notes

Pete Wright:
Hello everybody. And welcome to Taking Control the ADHD podcast on true story FM I'm Pete Wright, and I'm here with Nikki Kinzer.

Nikki Kinzer:
Hello everyone. Hello, Pete Wright.

Pete Wright:
Hello.

Nikki Kinzer:
Hello,

Pete Wright:
Fine. How do you do?

Nikki Kinzer:
I'm doing good. How are you?

Pete Wright:
I'm doing very well. It's been a good week, catching up on some things.

Nikki Kinzer:
Good.

Pete Wright:
I was a little bit tardy on placeholder three, but I got it out the door. Very excited about it. We introduced Bento the conversation with the developer, Francesco D'Alessio, and I always love catching up with Francesco. And the app is really interesting. I'm excited for you to listen to this episode because I think it will connect for you and the people that you are working with. I think it will. I have a hunch.

Nikki Kinzer:
I have a hunch it will too. So tell people how they can hear it.

Pete Wright:
Well, Placeholder is for our dear subscribers and supporters over on our Patreon at patreon.com/theADHDpodcast. We do all kinds of stuff over there, but this is our newest benefit to patrons. Is this members only placeholder podcast. You can find it over at take controladhd.com/placeholder. And when you get over there, you can listen to the trailer and episode one to get a flavor of what it is. And if you find you enjoy it, then I encourage you to jump back over to patreon.com/theADHDpodcast and check it out. It comes with all kinds of other stuff, though. We do a monthly coffee with Pete. I do a coffee with Pete, which is kind of a technical happy hour, and which is really fun. Bring the tech and systems things that you're thinking about and we all gather on our discord video channel and talk about tech for hour, hour and a half once a month. Nikki, you've got coaching or you're coaching with Nikki. That's the first Tuesday of every month? No second Tuesday.

Nikki Kinzer:
No, it's the last Tuesday of every month.

Pete Wright:
Exactly what I said the last Tuesday of every month. Nailed it in one. Where you do live coaching.

Nikki Kinzer:
Yes.

Pete Wright:
For folks who want to solve their ADHD troubles.

Nikki Kinzer:
Or at least talk about them.

Pete Wright:
Yeah, yeah. At least talk about...

Nikki Kinzer:
Let's be honest. [crosstalk 00:02:24] I don't know if we solve them exactly in that hour, but we talk about them.

Pete Wright:
We talk about them. Now those two times with me and Nikki, those are available for our new platinum tier, but the Placeholder podcast is available across all of our tiers. And you can get that in your Patreon podcast feed as a supporter. So lots of stuff going on again, patreon.com/theADHDpodcast. Go learn more. See what you think about it. And we would love it if you would jump in and support us. Do we have any news?

Nikki Kinzer:
No, we're good. Let's go on with the show.

Pete Wright:
No news. It's a news free day. Well then let's talk. Let's go ahead and get Rach.
Rach Idowu was diagnosed with ADHD Combined Type on January 2020. And this is just before her ADHD clinic closed down due to the pandemic. Undaunted though, she started Adulting ADHD over on Substack to document her own personal experience. Since then, she has been featured in the New York Times, Inverse, and Mashable, and has been featured as a panelist over at Facebook, at Ubisoft, Comic Con London and other organizations to talk about ADHD awareness and ADHD in the workplace. Rach Idowu, welcome to the ADHD podcast.

Rach Idowu:
Thanks so much for having me super excited to speak to you both today.

Pete Wright:
You have such a fun and interesting journey to become an ADHD advocate. You are fairly recently diagnosed. You're a pandemic diagnosis. Is that a fair? Is that a fair term?

Rach Idowu:
Yeah, I'm going to claim that because it was two months just before the UK went into lockdown. So January 2020 was when I got diagnosed with ADHD Combined Type.

Pete Wright:
Wow. Okay. And so then you have a chance to get diagnosed and then everything shuts down and you decide... I'm so curious your decision to start learning out loud in front of the world...

Rach Idowu:
Yeah.

Pete Wright:
About your ADHD. Can you tell us about that?

Rach Idowu:
The actual process of me trying to get diagnosed with ADHD started in 2018. So in the UK we have something called the National Health Service, which is... So in the UK, healthcare is paid for by the government, well, mostly paid for by the government. So we only pay like a small amount for prescriptions. So the waiting list on the UK National Healthcare Service was about two years to get diagnosed with ADHD. So I went to my GP, so that's a healthcare professional, in 2018 after I had watched a documentary about ADHD and told her, "Look, I think I have ADHD." Before I went, I went on Google and people were saying, take some examples of ADHD symptoms or traits you struggle with in both childhood and adulthood because it's very hard to get a healthcare professional to believe you as an adult.
Because as some people may know that ADHD is usually diagnosed in childhood. So my GP has said, "Well, I don't think you have ADHD. You graduated from university, you've got a good job." And at the time my GP had a patient who had ADHD and she said I wasn't liked them. So we were going back and forth. I convinced her to refer me onto a psychiatrist to get an assessment. And she said, yep, she will do it. But she warned me that it will take up to two years. I thought she was just saying that just to get me to just not pursue the diagnosis, but she was quite right because it took me a year and six months. So I saw two psychiatrists between 2018 to 2020, including my GP. And then I got my diagnosis in January 2020.

Pete Wright:
So two years, a year and six months to get that diagnosis. I feel like there is a whole other podcast that we should be exploring why it takes that long to get a diagnosis. But you know that is a separate conversation. that's craziness.

Rach Idowu:
It's a long waiting list in the UK. And at the time, I couldn't afford to spend money to get a private diagnosis. I was thinking, I don't want to pay this much money to just find out that I don't have ADHD, especially when I needed that money. So fast forward to 2020 when I was diagnosed with ADHD Combined Type. The pandemic really kicked off two months later in March. And so after, when you were diagnosed via the UK National Healthcare Service, many people are given post ADHD diagnosis catch up with a psychiatrist for about 12 months just to see how you're getting on with medication. So I had had two sessions with the psychiatrist and then, because the pandemic kind of started in, let's say March 2020, the UK went into a national lockdown, which meant the ADHD clinic shut down. And so they just sent me a letter in a mail saying, "ADHD clinic has shut down. We will contact you when you can have your next appointment." So for about the best part of, let's say maybe eight months, no contact with the clinic at all. Luckily I had just gotten my meds but I couldn't change my dosage.

Pete Wright:
I just, there was no accommodation in those eight months for any sort of telehealth, any Zoom care kind of a thing?

Rach Idowu:
No. And if you check my Twitter account, I was moaning about it every single month. So I started, I guess my Twitter account maybe in May 2020, and then my Subset newsletter at the same time, because I had no one to talk to about just being recently diagnosed with ADHD. But I thought there has to be an online community. So I used the Twitter search bar and searched the term ADHD and saw many people talking about it. But at the time I just wasn't comfortable talking about my diagnosis. I felt quite a little embarrassed and ashamed. So I made an anonymous Twitter account. So my at name was Adulting ADHD, but I used like a graphic of a woman with a brain on top of her head that I took from Canva. So I was completely anonymous and was just tweeting about my experience, just being diagnosed with ADHD as an adult. And that seemed to have sparked conversations in my Twitter threads, people connected. And yeah, that's kind of how my platform started.

Pete Wright:
I love your profile image right now is I was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, and now I can't shut up about it online.

Rach Idowu:
So accurate.

Pete Wright:
Yeah.

Nikki Kinzer:
So I'm curious, what was the documentary that you watched that triggered you into thinking that, "Oh, maybe this is me."

Rach Idowu:
Oh, I think I'm going to get in trouble, but I've written about it on Substack, so it's called Take Your Pills on Netflix. And it's a documentary that many people in the ADHD community aren't impressed with, including myself now because of the way they stigmatize the usage of ADHD medication. But it is actually a part of the story and why I got diagnosed. When I saw grown men talk about struggling with things like doing chores or concentrating, and then how ADHD medication just really changed their lives. I kind of, it was actually a Eureka moment for me to see that a man in his forties is struggling with this. And it does seem basic to other people, but this is exactly what I identify with and what I'm struggling with. So that's what led me to do a bunch of research online and do every single free online ADHD test I could before I went to my GP.

Nikki Kinzer:
You know, I'm glad you mention it because I've seen the doc documentary, not my favorite.

Pete Wright:
Oh, we got mad.

Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah.

Pete Wright:
Collectively.

Nikki Kinzer:
However, I love the fact that [crosstalk 00:10:41] that she could watch it and say, "Wait a minute, there's something in it that I'm resonating as a true ADHDer." And that to me is really positive and is definitely a positive of it. Yeah.

Pete Wright:
You started tweeting about it. It sounds like just out of frustration at the pace and pandemic and diagnosis. At some point you decided, okay... Or I guess I should say, was there ever a decision that you made in which you said, "I am, I am going to shift my identity and become someone who becomes known as doing this research out loud and learning and sharing out loud."

Rach Idowu:
No. So it was completely unplanned. I mean, I work in a public sector. I did at the time and I still do now. And so it was essentially just me getting on Twitter, asking people a bunch of questions on ADHD. And I just saw how many people were responding, connecting with each other. And then my newsletter, I just saw it as almost a personal diary to document how it's been adulting with ADHD, because I couldn't speak to my psychiatrist about it.
And then I hit a moment. It became a time where I was receiving emails from people thanking me for my newsletter. And at the time I just thought it was just me talking nonsense to myself. But over time I saw that it was resonating with people. People saying they got their ADHD diagnosis thanks to reading my newsletter or my tweet. And then I started to take it a bit more seriously in terms of okay, checking my writing for spelling mistakes, grammar, and just making sure anything I put out was my own experience or research that I'd seen. But I always tweet based on my own experience, so people can't use that against me.

Pete Wright:
It's really funny. I started taking it seriously, so I checked my spelling.

Rach Idowu:
Yeah. I started to use Grammarly the free version.

Pete Wright:
Right, right.

Nikki Kinzer:
So what were, or are some of the things that you talk about in your newsletter?

Rach Idowu:
Some of the things I talk about in my newsletter is, one my diagnosis story because there are so many people out there, especially in the UK, who don't know where to start with getting diagnosed with ADHD. I also talk about not living up to neurotypical standards. And of course we live in a capitalist society. Well, the majority of the world does, and we are almost always held to standards that are set up for people who are like neurotypical, who's I guess, brains work in a certain way or whose brains are expected to work in a certain way. So that was me coming out and saying, "F these standards, I am neuro divergent. This is how my brain works. You're either going to work with me or not." And then I also talk about neurodivergence at work, which is what I speak to a lot of companies about. And it's something I'm super passionate about as someone who is in the workplace, who thinks every organization should have accommodations for neurodivergent people. So those are just some examples of things that I talk about in my newsletter.

Nikki Kinzer:
So I love that. So you talk a lot about ADHD and work. So what are some of the things that you would do or talk about if you were to go into a business and talk about this? What, what would be the topic?

Rach Idowu:
The first thing that I find that businesses don't consider is actually wanting to have an organization that's filled with, well, it's diverse, but also that also includes neurodivergent people, but that starts at the hiring practices. So if I'm filling out an application form, there are some employers that have disability confidence. So they say, "Tik this box if you have a disability." And they have a guaranteed interview scheme, so if you do meet the bar, but there are so many applicants, we will still put you forward because you meet the bar and we want to increase the numbers of disabled people. Another thing employers don't think about is if I'm neurodivergent, I'm applying for a role and I'm expected to give a presentation on a day, giving me the material earlier on or a couple of minutes before, so I can familiarize myself with it, that will help. Giving me extra time to complete, let's say a coding exercise, that will help.
So I feel like accommodations start at the hiring practices, not just when neurodivergent people get employed or in an organization. And I feel like that's what employers, don't think about. And then within the organization, I think it's just setting a culture of inclusivity because oftentimes you hear people saying to the employers, "Can I use noise canceling air phones? Or can I just use headphones whilst I work?" And the response that I've been told is they say, "Well, it won't be fair. You're getting special treatment." But if you foster an inclusive environment, then colleagues won't see a special treatment. They understand that that meets the need, or maybe employers can think about just setting that rule, that everyone can use headphones. So it doesn't feel like everyone that's being treated differently. Having a desk away from the busy areas, some neurodivergent folk don't like [inaudible 00:16:06] desk in. So just little things like that can just make the workplace a bit more inclusive for us. And that can, I guess, enable us to thrive in these workplaces.

Pete Wright:
I find that so interesting that everything you're saying right now, these are the same conversations that we have about transitioning through middle school, high school here in the U.S. And into higher education, postgraduate education, people who are struggling with the more rigorous accommodations available early on and they become less rigorous or less accessible the older you get in progressing through school. And here you are talking about the same things that employers are not thinking about largely because they're so rarely confronted by those things. Like how... I'm so curious about your perspective and the people who share with you that their employers... Are they starting to wake up to the fact that accommodations for ADHD are a real thing that we need to address and think about?

Rach Idowu:
So I know some people have mentioned that some of the larger organizations have neurodiversity employee resource groups. So they have internal networks that help to, I guess, raise awareness of all neurodivergent conditions, including ADHD, and help them to understand the symptoms and strengths that we struggle with so that when we do come with accommodations, it's not like we're asking for the world, they can understand why we actually need them. And then there are some organizations that just think ADHD, "Oh, it's just, you can't sit still, or you are not concentrating or you're lazy." So they don't really understand how much we'd benefit for some accommodations or how we struggle in certain areas and where we might need some support.
So I still think there just isn't that understanding of how ADHD can impact someone's performance at work, but then there's also ADHD can cause you to thrive at work, just as long as we are given the right accommodations and we have colleagues and managers who help us play to our strengths. So I think it's a mixed bag, really. I don't think we are there yet. I know lots of organizations have done decent jobs in mental health. So like anxiety, depression, it can be a co-occurring condition with ADHD. And I'd like to see what has been done in the mental health space be done when it comes to neurodivergence as well.

Pete Wright:
I was talking to an HR director just yesterday and we were talking about the immense struggle it has been adapting the medium size organization of 50 people because the CEO has said, "I don't need to think about those things at work. That's what our health plan is for." Right.

Rach Idowu:
Oh, wow.

Pete Wright:
Go get your therapy, go do what you need to do. I have supplied that service so that we don't have to think about it here.

Rach Idowu:
Wow.

Pete Wright:
And that feels like such a weird out to supply the service, but not allow the accommodations so that people can actually thrive in the job.

Rach Idowu:
Exactly. And it's very different. So I've gone to therapy before and I can have an amazing therapy session for 50 minutes. Feel great during the session, maybe a couple of hours after session, but at work if the problems don't change and things aren't done to help you, whether it's manage your workload better, to help you organize yourself better then everything you've learned at therapy... Like it's, how do I put it? Everything you've learned that therapy has helped during that moment, but if a problem still persists at work things aren't going to change. So it's almost trying to stick a plaster all over like a big hole in the water, essentially.

Pete Wright:
Yeah.

Nikki Kinzer:
Well, it's interesting. I like that you talk about what kinds of accommodations are available because I think a lot of times clients that I have, they don't know what to ask for. So I think having that conversation and just saying that having the noise canceling headphones can really make a difference. I mean, just having some information around what to ask for. And in the big scheme of things, they're not big things. They're not going to cost anything to the company.

Rach Idowu:
And it helps everyone. So another example of like an accommodation I asked for, so having ADHD, I'm not the most organized person in the world. And I forget things and I don't pick things up, but what I asked for is flexible deadlines. So I asked teams to give me like a hard deadline and a soft deadline. So if you're telling me you need something by tomorrow, let me know that's an absolute hard deadline so I know okay, this needs to be met. But if you build flexibility within the timeframe that leaves room for slippages, which might happen. When it comes to scheduling meetings, schedule it five minutes behind the hour. So there's time for breaks. I get restless during the day very easily, so I might not be able to sit still and concentrate because I've had back to back meetings. So it's just little things like that. And that could help everyone in the organization, whether they have a ADHD or not, and it's not going to cost anything.

Pete Wright:
This may be something different in the UK than what we're dealing with. But I'm seeing a question in the chat room or a comment that, "I'm hesitant to be upfront with ADHD diagnosis divulging during the hiring process, as somebody who's going into a new job. I'm just not ever sure that doing so won't discourage them from taking me on." What is your sense of opening up about your ADHD in the hiring process? And I guess, especially, what's your sense of the cultural acceptance of ADHD across the UK right now?

Rach Idowu:
Yeah, that's a really good question. And I get so many people ask me similar questions from the community. I would say to judge it for yourself. Personally, I haven't ever disclose my ADHD as part of the hiring process or even on the job until I have felt comfortable with that person. One, the cons of disclosing on an application. Some people have said when they've disclosed their ADHD or other types of neurodivergencies they haven't gotten the job and they think it's possibly because they've disclosed it. On the one hand people can say, "Well, if you've disclosed your ADHD and you haven't gotten the job, would you really want to work for that organization?" But then again, in the UK, we are going through a massive cost of living crisis. Inflation is the highest it's been in 40 to 60 years.
So some people might be in a better position to only want to work for organizations that are ADHD friendly, let's say, whereas other people, they probably can't afford to pass off on jobs. So there's that trade off. But I think for me personally, I disclosed my ADHD to my manager probably over a year after my diagnosis. And that's only because I featured in a piece for the New York Times and I had took pictures for it and I was paranoid that she would somehow come across it. But at that time I trusted her and her response was amazing, was just like, "Thanks for telling me. Is there anything that I can read up on? Should we change things around to make things better for you?" she was really keen to understand ADHD. So, yeah.

Nikki Kinzer:
Well, and as a past HR person, I think it is smart not to say anything, if you don't have to, because there really isn't any reason to, you. You don't know necessarily what you may or may not need until you're in the job and why put yourself in a situation because not everybody understands it. I mean, that's the reality. Not everyone understands it. And I personally would.... And, you're right. I mean, I think that the answer is you have to trust your own instinct and you have to know, you have to trust yourself and what you think about this company and who you're talking to.
But I always ask, or I always tell my clients, if you're going to be interviewing for a company, interview them just as much as they're interviewing you. You know, ask about the culture, ask about hours, ask about deadlines, ask about where would you be seated? Because you may not even know where your desk is in the interview, right. So find those things out and ask as many questions as you can to see if it's a right fit for you.

Rach Idowu:
Exactly. And then I guess one argument for disclosing you have ADHD, is that okay you want to know whether this well, if you have very specific accommodations that you need to ensure that the job can provide. But one thing that I've learned from people that I speak to, so I have a discord channel for neurodivergent people working in the workplace, is that some workplaces make you fill out forms to demonstrate why you need this. It's called reasonable adjustment. So why is your ADHD so severe that you need this accommodation or adjustment. So there's also that. So again, I think people should do their research, trust their gut and decide, okay, what are the risks and benefits with disclosing and not disclosing, but I never push anyone to disclose, but then it's again on the individual.

Pete Wright:
So we've been talking about... This whole series we've been talking to, well, the series I should say, is around ADHD influencers and those with an outsized influence and intention to teach and bring awareness to ADHD and broader neurodiversity and mental health issues. And you are one of those ADHD advocates. And you asked specifically not to be known as an ADHD influencer. And I read it and it's all I could think about. I would love to know your position on the word influencer and what that means to you.

Rach Idowu:
Yeah. So I feel like the term influencer can mean so many things, but I think as of late there are so many negative connotations attached to that word. But then also when I think influencer, I think someone who is influencing people to buy certain things, to live a certain lifestyle, to brand themselves in certain ways. So I find that it's more about brand, materialistic, just things, just, yeah luxury. Yeah. I feel like it just [crosstalk 00:27:25]

Pete Wright:
Like you don't want to be associated with those sorts of things.

Rach Idowu:
Yeah. I don't, it's kind of like, I don't think it sticks. Whereas an advocate it's like you are speaking up for yourself and others and trying to fight the good fight for a group of people and individuals.

Nikki Kinzer:
You're teaching.

Rach Idowu:
And yeah. So it kind of feels like apples and oranges. So not that I have an issue with the word influencer. I have many friends who are influencers, but because I know what they do as influencers and what I try to do to advocate for people with ADHD and other neurodivergent individuals. Sometimes I, yeah. I feel like it's quite different, maybe. No offense influencers. I love you all.

Nikki Kinzer:
Yes, exactly. Right. Because I probably bought these iPods because of something I saw on, because of Pete [crosstalk 00:28:09]

Pete Wright:
Yeah somebody influence you.

Nikki Kinzer:
Pete's my Influencer.

Pete Wright:
I'm your influencer?

Nikki Kinzer:
Pete, you tell me to buy something Apple and I buy it.

Pete Wright:
Welcome to the Pete-fluence everybody smash that like button.

Rach Idowu:
I love it, but I will take it if the word, if it makes sense for people when they are thinking about people who help people. So, yeah.

Pete Wright:
I feel like there is just such a gift to you learning out loud. Like we started with this conversation and I'm curious now to transition into the tools of your platform. Obviously Substack is a big part of your contribution to the body of knowledge. What do you find in terms of the platforms that you use and what are the platforms you love and why?

Rach Idowu:
I think so for me, and for my own benefits, Twitter will always be my first love because it's where I learn so much about ADHD and my own ADHD. There is this hashtag called ask ADHD, and you can search through it or just ask a question and you'll have so many people responding to any questions you have or anything that you're struggling with. So Twitter is my go to. The other thing I love is YouTube. So of course, how to ADHD, videos, I try to listen to podcasts as well. So shout out to your podcast, ADHD for smart women. Listen to podcasts on the go to, I think help myself have a better understanding of my ADHD and things I struggle with. And then also Discord where I can speak to other working professionals that have ADHD.

Pete Wright:
So do you have a YouTube channel yourself or do you do not trek in video?

Rach Idowu:
Oh no. So I watch how to ADHD videos. But I have an Instagram channel. So in terms of the content that I put out is on Substack, Instagram, Discord and I also have flashcards. So a range of things.

Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. Tell us more about the flashcards. I'm curious about them.

Pete Wright:
Yeah. Let's get into that.

Rach Idowu:
So I do have them here, I guess the audience won't see it. So

Pete Wright:
Brand deal, brand deal. No, these are yours.

Rach Idowu:
These are mine. Handmade took me six months to make them. So essentially when I first got diagnosed with ADHD in 2020, there was so much out there. So there was nothing short on the internet on ADHD. But what I found that... So I have got a short attention span and I just can't read large volumes of texts. So what I found that it was coming across so many different articles, very hard to digest. Lots of them were very scientific and I just needed someone to tell me, what is this trait? Can you give me an example? So I just know this is what I struggle with. And then also coping strategies and tips for whatever I struggle with. So that didn't exist in like one place. And when you read like the diagnostic criteria for ADHD, a lot of the examples are very specific to children and people who are in school and I'm not at that point in my life.
So I thought about, okay, so what can I do alongside my newsletter to help people kind of have maybe a beginner's understanding of ADHD and something they can use as a starting point to start the dialogue or to do further research on and to also help them as well. So I thought about an ebook initially. I just didn't want to sit and write it so that wasn't happening. I had people approach me to like write books. They're like, "Yeah, I can give you a book deal." I'm not going to sit down and write that anytime soon, but knew I wanted a physical product. So I decided to put together flashcards. So in university we'd have like these flashcards to write notes on to study for like a big exam. And my sister is in med school and I'd always see her carrying bags of these flashcards.
And I just had a Eureka moment and thought, "Okay, I'm going to do that with ADHD." So I created decks, 25 cards in one deck on ADHD, hyperactive impulsive type traits, and then ADHD inattentive type traits because I have ADHD Combined Type, so essentially both. So how each deck works is that you have an ADHD trait, let's say procrastination, a description of what procrastination is, including some examples as to why you might procrastinate, a few examples of procrastination in adulthood. So people can even resonate with them, especially if they're suspecting they have ADHD. And then top tips on how to deal with procrastination, such as productive procrastination. It may be doing... So, which is leaving what you're doing and doing something else that needs to be done. And then you will have you get a dopamine rash and you have that motivation and then switching back to what you actually need to get done in the moment. So I have that for all of the ADHD traits, stroke symptoms, and all of these traits are in the ADHD diagnostic criteria.

Pete Wright:
These are like [crosstalk 00:33:25]

Rach Idowu:
I can show you.

Pete Wright:
Awesome and legit learning tools, right here?

Nikki Kinzer:
Yes.

Pete Wright:
Like these are not like here's a flashcard to help you feel good today.

Nikki Kinzer:
No, and so much easier to read than a book.

Rach Idowu:
Yeah.

Nikki Kinzer:
Holy cow.

Pete Wright:
Yeah. Books, stupid books.

Rach Idowu:
Yeah. I would take that very much easier to read. And so the one... So I get messages on from so many people about how the flashcards has helped, but I had to post one, this woman said her stepdaughter is 10 years old and was struggling with projection sensitivity, dysphoria. And that she had read the flashcard and gone away and looked at so many YouTube videos. And now she feels so much better and can manage her RSD better. And that shocked me because my target market is like adults or people in their late teens. And to just get that email was just mind blowing. So then yeah, it's doing good. So like, and it's helping people and that's all I really care about with these cards.

Nikki Kinzer:
Well, and what I love about it is it's like a toolbox, right? It's like an ADHD toolbox. And the one thing that ADHDers will tend to do is forget about what works. And so yeah, when you're dealing with procrastination, to have something like that on hand, to be able to say, "Okay, so what does this say again? How can I handle this again? Or how can I maybe do something a little bit different." It gives you that resource so quickly without having to go do a deep dive on the internet again about procrastination.

Rach Idowu:
Exactly. And it's also, I know someone who said that their mom was reading these cards and their mom was just like, wow, okay. I [inaudible 00:35:03] all of these things. And on the UK National Healthcare System, it says that ADHD is likely to be hereditary. So if you have it, one of your parents could have it. So it's just funny to see that people's parents were like, oh, this could be me.

Pete Wright:
Yeah.

Nikki Kinzer:
Well, this is not like me.

Pete Wright:
Once you get to the other side of where you are and you start looking at your kids and saying, "Oh crap, look what I handed down." Yeah, it doesn't feel great when you're trying to navigate your own ADHD and realize you just gifted it to them by dint of heredity. But...

Nikki Kinzer:
But you gifted a lot of other great things too and something

Pete Wright:
Thank God.

Nikki Kinzer:
Yes. And something I say to parents that have ADHD and their kids have ADHD is, "You are a great model for them because you understand them. You get them." And so there is a common understanding there of how hard certain things can be. So it can be a very fortunate thing in a lot of ways.

Pete Wright:
Yes, it is. Thank you. That's very kind of you Nikki, I appreciate it.

Speaker 4:
I find that interesting because I mean, I don't have kids, but I do want to have kids. And now I'm thinking like, "I can't even look after myself. I don't have any pets. So how is it going to be with kids?"

Pete Wright:
You know, there is this, I don't know... I'm speaking for no one, but myself, but there is this sense, when I was diagnosed we found out we were having kids. There was this sense that I had that I was like, "Okay, I've got to hurry. I've got to hurry and figure this out. Right. Like I need to, I need to figure out everything that has to do with everything with my ADHD because I know one of them, or both, are going to land with it at some point." And true to form, they did. And you know what? We ended up, I call us a nice little team. Like we're an ADHD team. And we...

Rach Idowu:
I love that.

Pete Wright:
We have each other's backs and my wife is a speech language pathologist. And so she does not have ADHD, but absolutely relates and works with kids in the schools who have it as a comorbid symptom to their speech and language communication development. And so we all just sort of, I feel very lucky that we all ended up in a place where we can support one another. So...

Rach Idowu:
It sounds lovely.

Pete Wright:
It's not that bad. It's not that bad.

Rach Idowu:
It's good to know.

Pete Wright:
Yeah. Right. We're okay. Hey, you're fantastic. Thanks...

Nikki Kinzer:
Thank you so much for being here.

Pete Wright:
Thanks for hanging out with us today, Rach. It's awesome.

Rach Idowu:
No, it was so fun.

Pete Wright:
Well, you, so you just real quick, let's do the rundown of where people can and should follow you. Instagram, adulting ADHD, right?

Rach Idowu:
Yes. Check.

Pete Wright:
Okay. Twitter, adulting ADHD.

Rach Idowu:
Yes.

Pete Wright:
Okay. Substack is just still adulting ADHD. Is it just substack.com/ yeah. Okay. Okay. We've got three. And then the final one is the ADHD traits flashcards and that's just ADHDtraits.com. Right?

Rach Idowu:
You're smashing it, Pete. Exactly. [crosstalk 00:38:09]

Pete Wright:
That's all from legit memory. Like that was mostly me testing myself, trying to.

Rach Idowu:
Fantastic. No, you got all of them and I need your addresses. Cause I'd love to send you some flash cards just to have, if you want them.

Nikki Kinzer:
Yes, oh my God I would love that.

Pete Wright:
I would absolutely love them.

Rach Idowu:
Christmas came early.

Pete Wright:
Oh, fantastic.

Nikki Kinzer:
Thank you.

Pete Wright:
We will certainly put all the links in the show notes. Is there any place else that you want to... Have you started your TikTok channel yet? Do we have any ADHD dance videos coming or?

Rach Idowu:
Do you know? What do you guys think about TikTok? So I don't know. So I started personal on Instagram reels, but I feel like TikTok... So TikTok, I know has helped so many people with ADHD, but it's a certain level of cringe that I'm just not ready to go down on the road.

Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah.

Pete Wright:
Yeah, totally. Get that. You know, we did, although talk to on our last, in our series was Casey Davis who has 1.4 million followers on TikTok and [crosstalk 00:39:08]

Rach Idowu:
Yeah amazing.

Pete Wright:
She does a delightful job of integrating like helpful tips and strategies with fun, how to dance sober videos. I think you could unlock something.

Rach Idowu:
Oh, hmm

Nikki Kinzer:
What I learned, and also from our other guest, is that it's not all dancing because I kind of thought TikTok of just dancing and you know, cause I have a teenager and she is on it all the time. But yeah, I definitely learned that that's not what it's all about and that it can be a really good way to get the word out. I personally don't think you're going to see me on TikTok anytime soon.

Pete Wright:
I'm still pushing for it.

Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. He's still pushing for it [crosstalk 00:39:59] But I don't think so. You know, you can only do so many things.

Rach Idowu:
Exactly. I feel like if I got a TikTok then I feel like I'd get addicted to it because I heard the algorithm on there is crazy. So I know I'd just be addicted to my phone.

Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah, yeah.

Pete Wright:
Yeah. I think that's the real danger for me too, is I've had to do a cleanse and get all that stuff off. I don't know if I can afford it. My attention can't afford it. Well, you were wonderful. Thank you so much for hanging out with us, Rach. You're great. Great to meet you. And I hope this is not the last time our paths cross.

Rach Idowu:
No, not at, at all. Thank you all. Thank you both for having me and it I've just had an amazing time.

Nikki Kinzer:
Thank you.

Pete Wright:
Oh, you're so you're wonderful. Thank you. We appreciate all of you for downloading and listening to this show. Thank you for your time and your attention. Don't forget, if you have something to contribute to this conversation, we're heading over to the show talk channel in the discord server and you can join us right there by becoming a supporting member at the deluxe level or better on behalf of Rach Idowu and Nikki Kinzer. I'm Pete Wright and we'll see you right back here next week on Taking Control the ADHD podcast.