Caroline Maguire Helps Us Make Friends
Friendship. It’s a word that evokes warmth, nostalgia, and—if we’re honest—a twinge of confusion. Because once upon a time, it was effortless. A shared lunch, a game of tag, and suddenly, a best friend was born. But then, something happened. Adulthood. And with it came the slow realization that making and keeping friends isn’t just harder—it’s an entirely different proposition.
We've heard the lamentations before: Why is this so difficult? Why do friendships slip away? Why does it feel like rejection when it’s just… life? Enter Caroline Maguire. She is no stranger to the complexities of human connection. A coach, a teacher, and the award-winning author of Why Will No One Play with Me?, Caroline has made it her life’s work to decode the unspoken rules of friendship—especially for those with ADHD.
Today, she returns to the podcast with answers and a roadmap. What if the secret to adult friendships isn’t just about finding the right people, but about understanding the invisible structures that hold relationships together? What if the problem isn’t you, but the way we misjudge who is truly a friend? What if, in our rush to connect, we’re skipping the essential steps that turn acquaintance into ally?
From the hidden psychology of trust to the overlooked power of consistency, this episode pulls back the curtain on the friendships we crave—and the ones we lose. Pete wrestles with the ghosts of old friendships, Nikki examines the seasons of connection, and Caroline offers not just wisdom, but action. Because friendship, like any great endeavor, requires more than just longing. It requires intention.
Links & Notes
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Pete Wright:
Hello everybody and welcome to Taking Control, the ADHD podcast on True Story FM. I'm Pete Wright and I'm here with Nikki Kinzer.
Nikki Kinzer:
Hello everyone. Hello, Pete Wright.
Pete Wright:
Oh, hi.
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh, hi
Pete Wright:
Friend.
Nikki Kinzer:
Friend.
Pete Wright:
It's very, very, very good to see you and to continue with you our-
Nikki Kinzer:
As friends.
Pete Wright:
Relationships, our relationships discussion as friends.
Nikki Kinzer:
As friends, because we're going to talk about friends.
Pete Wright:
We are, we're talking about friends, and I'm really excited about this because this is a thing. We talk about intimate partner relationships. We talk about just relationships writ large. But I think when you look at the things that people in our community say a lot is, oh my God, friendships are hard. And maybe it's not the people in our community. Maybe it's just me screaming into the void that friendships are hard. Whichever the case, I am very excited about this conversation that we're having today. We've got a old friend back on the show to help us out.
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Making friends as a kid felt effortless. One shared lunch, one game of railroad tie tag, and suddenly you had a best friend. But as adults, friendship is more complicated, especially for those with ADHD where forgetfulness and time blindness and social missteps can make connection feel just out of reach. Caroline Maguire understands this better than anyone. She's a coach, a teacher, an award-winning author of Why Will No One Play with Me, a book that has reshaped how we think about friendships and belonging. And her next book aims to take us to the next level in Friendship Skills for the Neurodivergent coming in 2026, Caroline is back with us today to break down why friendships change and how ADHD can get in the way, and most importantly, what we can do to build the relationships we crave.
Caroline, welcome back to the ADHD podcast.
Caroline Maguire:
I'm so glad to be here. This is so much fun. Yeah, I think friendships for adults, it is harder, although I would say that the little ones struggle too, it's like a thing. ADHD friendship is hard.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Well, there are no kids here today, so.
Nikki Kinzer:
We're going to dive right into the adult friendships.
Pete Wright:
I think it goes back to what our expectations are of these relationships. What is it that makes a friend as an adult?
Caroline Maguire:
Oh, I'm glad you asked that question. So one of the things that I've been talking a lot about lately is that we as ADHD people often misjudge our relationship and we attribute the characteristics of a friend to an acquaintance or a buddy or an activity friend, and then we expect them to behave like a friend. And then when they don't, we say, everyone lets us down. People aren't there for us. I give so much, people don't give back.
And so to me, there are levels of friendship. And if someone is just an activity buddy, you just see them at yoga. That is different. If they are someone you just work with, you might have a great relationship at work, but that is different than a friend because a friend to me crosses different boundaries. There's trust, intimacy, and by the way, trust is track record. So people have to earn our trust. They don't just get to trust, which is something we give away and we too quickly trust and then they let us down. So I think that friendship is a real bonded connection, but I think a lot of times we are so excited for that, that we rush in and we attribute the characteristics of friendship to someone who's just an acquaintance. And that's okay, they could grow to be a friend, but then when they don't behave as a friend, we are disappointed.
Nikki Kinzer:
So what's the difference then between the acquaintance and a friend? How would you define those two things?
Caroline Maguire:
Well, there's a few things. One, it takes, depending on who you listen to, it takes three to six months, hours and hours and hours to become a friend, of being together and sharing things. And that's one of the distinctions. I think an acquaintance, they don't know usually your history, they don't know about your life, they don't know more vulnerable stuff about you. And you don't have as much trust with them, you haven't sort of felt them out. You are getting to know them. Whereas if someone is a friend, they've been to my house, they know more about me.
Now, we can have online friends who aren't local, but I think even if you think about your online friends, they know things about you, about your personality. It's more of a bonded relationship versus an acquaintance where, I wouldn't even just say it's superficial, but it's usually in a certain arena and you don't have as much of that history and you just haven't grown to the point where you could call them and say, "I just had the most horrible interaction with my boss and I'm seriously worried about being fired." They'd be like, "Why are you calling me?"
Nikki Kinzer:
Right. Yeah.
Caroline Maguire:
It's out of the blue.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, it's really interesting. That the closest friend relationships are friend relationships that cross contexts. That's what I'm hearing. And that can be used as a tool too. I feel like I see, so there are people who I see regularly, but it's only in one context. If I am interested in building new friendships, the onus is sort of on me to invite them into a new context in my life, to open the door for something more broad.
Caroline Maguire:
Right. A real friend, they know about your family of origin. You don't have to even explain, you're like, "Oh, my sister." And they are like, "Oh, I know." And they understand things about you. And they go across different contexts and maybe they've never been to your workplace, but they know all the characters, right? They're like, "Oh, Margie at the front desk. What is up with her today? How is Margie today?" And I'm like, "Margie was terrible." They know that stuff about you.
And look, there are people who really come to me and say, I want to make a friend in an activity arena where we have this special interest and we can be together and we can be close in that arena. And I had this person who wanted to do this stuff with motorcycles where you go to these different weekends and they actually made friends in that interest and they were close to them. They would talk to them, they would keep in touch between things. So it's not that you can't have a specialized friendship, but if someone's really a friend, they have trust with you, they know things about you, and you've had those more rich conversations versus the person on the spin bike next to me, they don't know about all the people in my life, the factors in my life. I think there's that distinction.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah, I can see that. I think about a lot of my friends, especially as my kids growing up, I would meet at my kids' events. So sporting events, we'd be on the sidelines and we'd be watching our kids. And some of those friendships were really great friendships during that time. But then as soon as the sports stopped, our communication stopped. And so I'm thinking, because that was more of a context type of situation. Where my best friend right now, one of my closest friends, was from a shared sport, but we took it out of context. We had dinner at each other's houses, and we celebrated holidays all of a sudden. And it started to become a lot closer because of the time we were putting into it.
Caroline Maguire:
And I think we have to normalize too, because we've had a hard time as ADHD adults with friendship, I think people get upset at the fact that you have different friends for different seasons and different reasons. And there's different friends at different phases of your life. And I think we want that close bond so much because we like big talk, not small talk. And some people have never had that close bond. And so when that sports connection or you're moved to a different team in work, people write me, people DM me, people tell me, "I'm so upset." And I think that we have to normalize it a little. Not everybody becomes a close friend, that isn't that you've done anything wrong. I talk a lot about how to bridge to a real friend, but I think those people meant something to you at the time and they gave you something and that's okay. That's good.
And people have to be open to friendship. I'm super busy right now. I'm writing a book, I'm doing all this stuff. My daughter's a junior, so she's doing all this college stuff. If someone came and they were super fabulous, but they wanted to meet every Friday for tea, I'd be like, I'm so sorry I can't. I don't leave this desk. And then other online friends, I've actually become much closer to this year because when we work together and we share experiences together, we can be together. So I think it's like that's also has to be normalized for ADHD folks because I think we get upset because we've had a hard time and we feel disappointed.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah, I can see that.
Pete Wright:
The things that get me that I find are triggering, you've said a couple of them already.
Caroline Maguire:
I'm sorry.
Pete Wright:
No, this is good. We need to peel back this particular onion. The things that get me are one, different friends for different seasons. I find I perseverate on the long slow march to losing a friend. When they transition from you're no longer a good friend, but you're an old friend. I don't meet you for lunch every week. We're not on the phone all the time anymore because our lives have clearly gone in a different direction. I perseverate on that because I can't let go of, I guess, self-inflicted rejection, that it feels like I did something wrong to lose this friendship, even though it was a mutual set of circumstances that leads us in a new direction. So that's number one.
And number two is new friends. This is the other side. I meet a new friend and I'm almost, these days, terrified to invite them across different contexts because if things are good in this one context, why would I want to rock the boat and learn too much about them and find out that our ideologies aren't necessarily in alignment anymore? And maybe that's terrifying too. So I feel like I lose on both ends.
Nikki Kinzer:
And Pete has no friends except for me.
Caroline Maguire:
Oh my God, Pete. Okay.
Pete Wright:
All right. Help me, Caroline.
Caroline Maguire:
Pete, I'm sorry to have said things that make you feel that way, but here's the thing.
Pete Wright:
This is why you are here, is to push me.
Caroline Maguire:
Okay, let's reframe the old friends thing and let's be a little bit... Here's the thing, people do sometimes, you have phases when they're closer to you, phases when they're more distant from you. And I think one of the keys, and I know this is not easy for guys, is to say, "Hey, I loved it when we used to have dinner every week. I know that that's not possible now, but you're one of my oldest friends and I love when we are in touch." And I think a litmus test for me is when you are in touch, does it feel really good? And that's part of the sadness. It feels so good.
I think that there are people in life that if you're lucky enough, when you do get to see them, it's like magic. It's like no time has passed. You don't have to explain any of your history. You can just be like... I actually went and had breakfast with a really close friend of mine, and she's like this with you, Pete. I wish we could be together more. But she's got a lot going on. And she started into a story about putting her mother-in-law, who I've known for a long time, into a nursing home. She didn't even go into any of the context. She was like, so you know so-and-so, and you know what she's like, so here's the story. We know each other so well that she doesn't have to give me context. Like, oh, my mother-in-law is like this. She was just, and here's the story of the day we moved in. And I was like, oy-vey. Right.
So I think that Pete, it's very natural to have that reaction. And I'm very into infrastructure because ADHD, it slips off our radar. We forget things, whatever. And so it's like maybe you're vulnerable and you say, I miss you, and what can we do? I don't care if it's the family gets together three times a year and we take these three Mondays that we have off a year and we get together. How can we build that in so that you're not like, oh... Because your fear that I'm hearing is it's going to become too long and then it's going to be gone.
Pete Wright:
Well, and let me go ahead and drop another little friendship grenade in there. Part of this is the result of a divorce. Our dearest friends divorced.
Caroline Maguire:
Oh, I hate that.
Pete Wright:
Maintaining dual friendships, it turns out, is really hard.
Caroline Maguire:
It is really hard. It is really hard. My husband just went through this, where friends of ours divorced. And I said, "Well, I'm not going to make a choice because I've known them both forever." And my husband didn't make a choice either. But then he found himself, and he's a very sweet, wonderful man, but not equipped for this. He found himself at different situations in the middle kind of thing. And when he came home, he was like pale as a ghost. And he was like, "I didn't anticipate." And I was like, "Oh yeah, you have to separate church and state." You have to keep things very separate and whatever. So it is really hard. I'm so sympathetic to that.
And I also don't like choosing, I watched my parents have this happen where they were forced to make a choice and then they lost someone and they still talk about certain people. And I'm always encouraging them, it wasn't like the person you lost did something wrong and you made the choice for that reason. Reach out to them, because they'll be like, "I was college roommates with so-and-so in 1963, and now I haven't seen them for 30 years." I'm like, "Why don't you reach out? Because they'd probably be really happy to hear from you." And they're in their eighties now, so how long are we doing this?
But I think there's that, Pete, and I think there's also just logistically with the executive function with ADHD that it takes to maintain those relationships. That's why I'm thinking, can you have an honest conversation and create some kind of plan. Like every time the Oscars are on, we're watching together, whatever it is. Because I do think that there's a feeling of loss that I'm hearing from you, and I think it's so common with people. I really do. I think divorce, distance, people move more than we used to, right?
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. And that can take a toll for sure. The distance alone can make a difference. Yeah.
Pete Wright:
Well, and you said something that it feels like the elephant in the room, which is particularly with men, and as much as we don't love having hyper-gendered conversations on the show, the fact is it's harder with adult men, or I'll say, I find it hard as an adult man to maintain close friendships in the same way that I did when I was younger. And I think that it is bad for all my other relationships not to have friends.
Caroline Maguire:
Yeah. No, it is. It is.
Pete Wright:
It's bad for my relationship with my wife, who is my best friend. She needs me to have friends. She needs that deeply.
Caroline Maguire:
She's like, Nikki, please. No, I think that's true. I think that's true. And there's people we lose because of other stuff that we can't help. And so I think it is true. And I also think, I hate to perpetuate gender roles, I will tell you, I've been reading a lot of research on all this because I'm writing a book about adult friendship. And so I think it is a studied thing that men have a harder time communicating. Who knows if that will be true of Gen Z or the people coming up. I don't know because things are changing.
But I think also, it's hard for anyone to be vulnerable. It really is. But yeah, you need friends because you need people also to support your interests. My husband is also my best friend, we've been together since college, but he has interests that I don't share. I would never get up at four o'clock in the morning to go fishing ever. Never. It will never happen. And so for him to have people who want to do whatever he wants to do, that fills a gap that I can't fill and will not be filling, by the way.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. Period.
Pete Wright:
Just for the record. It's interesting. I had a crack about no kids being present earlier, but the transition from kid friendships to adult friendships is on my mind, it feels like it was easier to make friends as a kid. And that may not be true. That just may be my sort of sense memory of it having survived youth. Was it easier for me as a kid? You weren't there, but you study kids.
Caroline Maguire:
I mean, actually, ADHD kids are more lonely and ADHD kids don't tend to have friends. And so I'm so happy it was easier for you, Pete. I'm so happy.
Pete Wright:
Well, my friends had ADHD. It just... Yeah.
Caroline Maguire:
Oh, there you go. But I think it is harder as an adult too, because I think we're more siloed. I think that we've lost something called the third place. So the third place was this idea that every week in past generations, you went to the bowling league, you went to church, you went to coffee shops, you went to these certain places. A lot of those places have disappeared. You went to a park bench and you saw certain people. A lot of those places have disappeared. And I've been talking a lot about bring back the third place because even if it just gives you acquaintances, which I know some of the audience members are going to be DMing you like, we're not looking for acquaintances. ADHD people have enough acquaintances. I get it.
But the thing is, you can't make friends just at your couch. So if you could, I'd have a million friends because I'm like, ugh, exhausted, end of the day, sit on the couch. But it's like if you go to certain places, if you explore your interests, if you explore those special interests that you have, then you're going to have that thing that we need as adults, which is to be with people who are potential friends. Because that's what makes it hard, Pete, is that when you were a kid, you had the neighborhood or you had activities, you had a place to actually meet.
Pete Wright:
A classroom.
Nikki Kinzer:
You had school. But I'm curious when you say that ADHD kids, a lot of them are lonely and don't have as many friends. So my daughter who has ADHD definitely has struggled with some friendships, especially in high school. Where does that come from? Why is that an issue more for ADHDers?
Caroline Maguire:
I think that, so I'm quoting one literature review study that said that 56% of ADHD kids have a social skills challenge. And so those challenges can be impulsivity, and it's kind of a stereotype. It can be not reading the room. It can be we have more conflict in friendships, that's actually studied for children. They don't always do these studies for adults, which is frustrating, but just extrapolating. And that's partly not knowing how to have the emotional regulation and the kinds of conversations you need to have. That's immaturity. I don't have yet the communication skills. My age is 11, but my maturity is eight or nine. And so I get into conflict. And then not knowing how to enter a group, literally not knowing how to be part of a group, how to manage a group.
And I feel like that tracks true, not just from the work I do, but I feel like when I talk to adults, they're like, "I didn't know how to make friends as a kid." And I think it's hard too because I think some people understand us and understand ADHD, but really not everyone gets it. And so there's these mismatched communication expectations. I feel like as an adult, and I'm very out, I tell people I have ADHD. I'm like, oh, I might do this. And I call this a communisplation where you explain your needs, explain who you are. I feel like with kids, they might not even know they're ADHD, so how could they say like, oh, I might be a person who says the wrong thing, but then I take it back. Right?
Nikki Kinzer:
Right.
Caroline Maguire:
They may not even have a diagnosis.
Nikki Kinzer:
Well, and what's interesting is I remember this one time in particular where she felt very left out of a situation. And looking hindsight, when she actually asked about it, the person that kind of left her out didn't see it as a big deal. She's like, it's not a big deal, but that's the RSD that's coming for my daughter, is that spiral of something has to be wrong with me and I'm being rejected in the situation for some reason, which may or may not have been true. I don't know. Yeah.
Caroline Maguire:
Yeah. And I talk about that mindset in the new book, and there's something I call anxious overcorrection. And so, see if this tracks Nikki.
Pete Wright:
I have that tattooed on my back, by the way.
Caroline Maguire:
You get this story in your head that something is a big deal. And I've had clients follow people into the bathroom to explain what they meant to say or to clarify, don't do that, it is not a good idea. Not a good idea. Don't like it. Okay, you can't make this stuff up. I've had people, like 45 texts like, hey, when I said this, what I meant was this. And I'm totally, by the way a reformed anxious overcorrector, so I feel your pain and I'm not judging you.
And I think that happens too. So the thing that wasn't a big deal, we make up a story that it is a big deal. We have this rejection sensitivity, we have this history of things being a big deal. And for adults, it was a big deal when we were kids or it was a big deal in the past. So we're like, oh my God. Once again. I had this happen this fall where I said something really dumb and I was like, oh my God, here we go. Here we go. Said something dumb, didn't mean it. Now I've been insensitive. Now that person is going to leave me. Now luckily, they were like, "Calm down." But I think because we have all this history, that little comment that maybe a typical person would say, "Oh, that? No big deal." It becomes... Right?
And we also have no actual evidence that it is a huge deal, but we get in our heads. I mean, Pete touched on this. He's like, I'm in my head. And then it gets bigger and bigger, and then I beg you, don't send the 45 texts. Because if they really have an issue and they are your true friend, they will say something to you. Or if you hurt someone, if I really hurt you, I'm going to apologize and that's fine, but I beg you to pause and not follow people into bathrooms. Say it again and again. Because then people... Now, it's like cringy.
Nikki Kinzer:
Right. It's like over apologizing too. I think that that can happen as well where there's just that over apology, apology over and over again. You're like, no, really, stop. You do not need to keep apologizing. And I can see that happening with text messages and things like that.
Pete Wright:
As long as we're on technology. Do you see any parallel to how this generation of dating apps has changed the way we think about making friends?
Caroline Maguire:
Yeah. And there are actually friend apps and don't ask me to name them right now because I don't think that I could pull them up in my head, but I think so. I thank God every day that I don't have to date on a dating app because my cousins are like 30 and they tell me stories. And I literally think, I mean, talk about rejection sensitivity. I would be in the fetal position every day. And I know that there's wonderful stories and people meet on apps and people meet through things. I know it happens. So don't lose hope.
But I think that apps can help. People tell me all the time, like, oh, I met a friend on an app. Especially vis-a-vis a special interest or just even online communities, there's this interest. Nobody else around me is interested in it. So I make friends that way. I do think though, the way that it's changed us is that sometimes we don't really know the person. And because we give trust away so easily, there's a we have to build up trust with people thing. I think it's good to meet... I know so many people who've made friends online. It's just, you don't know the person yet.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. You've got to be careful, for sure.
Pete Wright:
You're right, I look at younger people who are just swiping left and swiping right and swiping left and swiping right, and part of the conversation invariably is, don't you feel... Like you were talking about, I totally relate. I would be in a spiral of rejection. And the general consensus is once you do it so many times, rejection changes its meaning, it's just law of large numbers at this point. You're just trying to get out there. And I wonder if that changes the way we think about non-targeted intimate relationships. And if you can just swipe left or right to find somebody to date, shouldn't it be that easy to develop a close social relationship? In that regard, it feels harder to find somebody you don't want to have sex with. What is the world coming to?
Caroline Maguire:
That's the quote of the day, Pete. I mean, look, if we had confidence, okay, these are big ifs. If we had confidence and if we were okay with, I'm on a journey, I'm meeting people, the more you throw against the wall, I'm a salesman's daughter, the more you throw against the wall, the more it sticks. I've known people with confidence, very few, but I've known a few ADHD people who are like, I'm going to make friends and I'm going to join four activities a week in my areas of interest, and I'm going to go and I'm going to say, hey, I'm doing it. And some of them will work out and some of them won't. And I so admire that because that is 100% research-based the way to make friends. The problem is the rejection, and it's not real rejection. It didn't come together would be a better way to put it. But we perceive rejection in many cases or feel really bad.
I would say this though, for everyone listening, if you put all your eggs in one basket, I think you feel worse. So whenever I'm working with people, I have a bunch of adult clients right now because I'm doing this book, so I need to be with certain brains every week. And if they just join one activity and they meet someone and they really like them, but then it doesn't work out for whatever reason, they get a job transfer, they stop showing up, whatever, then they're like, I've wasted six months of my life. So if you're going to do this and you're going to try to make friends, which I certainly hope we will, you got to join more than one thing. You got to have multiple irons in the fire because things sometimes don't work out. And it is not a reflection on you. It is a reflection on...
The friend I had breakfast with, she's got three kids, she's putting her mother in a nursing home, she's doing this, doing that. She might stop showing up and it has nothing to do with you. It has everything to do with adult life sometimes gets to be really hard.
Nikki Kinzer:
Seasons in our life become difficult. So yeah. One of the things, I saw you, Caroline, do an Adda webinar around friendships. And after I saw that I even asked you, I want you on our show because it was so good. So if you guys are members of Adda, check out her webinar that you did last year in 2024. One of the things I loved about it so much, and I really want to touch on here, is that you talk about the issues about friendships and adults and all of the ways that ADHD gets involved in it, but you're also brilliant at, here are some things you can do. Here are some solutions. Here are some actual role modeling practice things. Can we talk about some of that? The person that's listening to this and they want to meet their next friend, how do you help them in doing that?
Caroline Maguire:
Okay, there's a formula. Okay, this is my little formula. This is based on-
Pete Wright:
I was told there would be no math.
Caroline Maguire:
There's no math. Pete, when I tell you I can't do my fourth grader's math, so do not worry. I can't do it. And by the way, I was always like, oh, I know my timestables so well. I'm helping him. I don't. I don't know my timestables that well. So just to be full disclosure. No, here's what I've come up with. High interest. Interest is key. Interest is our fuel, interest is what gets us going. So high interest activities with high engagement. So if you do certain things, let's say you join a Dungeons and Dragons club online or you go and you are making houses for Habitat for Humanity or something, you have a role and you're in a highly interactive situation. You have an opportunity to talk. So that's my big litmus test.
You have to have those kind of opportunities because otherwise you're just by yourself, but at an activity. So highly interactive, high interest activities where you have those opportunities to meet people. And I think like-minded people. So that's why I say high interest, it's like a filter. So that we would maybe be like-minded if you're looking for certain things in people, you can cultivate those interests based on that. And then you're going to more than one, because like I said, I think you have to have more than one going. Bring some conversation starters.
Friday I am speaking at the Chad Conference for small talk and I love scripts because otherwise sometimes we get there and we're like, I don't even know what to say. So we bring some conversation starters and be curious. We are the most curious beings on the earth. Be curious, ask people questions about themselves. And show up in proximity with people. So one of the big, I don't want to call it mistakes, but one of the big snafu that we get into is we don't show up. So I know this is easier said than done, but if you show up every week at the same place, your chances of making a friend skyrocket exponentially. This is data-driven, this isn't Caroline-driven, this is studied.
Nikki Kinzer:
So going to the same coffee shop every Friday at 9 A.M., you're bound to, at some point you're going to see somebody that's either got the same kind of pattern or routine or you may even be friends with the waitress or waiter because they see you all the time.
Caroline Maguire:
Exactly. And if you join a kayaking club, and it happens every Sunday. And then we're consistently inconsistent, so I get it, but if you don't show up three out of four Sundays, your chances of meeting people, getting to know people, them sort of counting on you. If they're looking for friends too or they're just open to it and you barely show up, then they're going to be like, whatever. Well, I don't know if Nikki's really open to me. They're worried about that too. Now I understand this is hard, so don't... Everybody, I understand. I do.
Nikki Kinzer:
But that's such a great place to start to be thinking about how do I expand my world and doing things that you enjoy doing. It's so interesting because going back to the male in friendships, my husband just recently in the last year or so, he goes to the dog park all the time. And he goes twice a day because we have a very high energy dog, puppy.
Caroline Maguire:
I do too. I do too.
Nikki Kinzer:
And he has met some good friends, I would say are good friends. Because they are there all the time around the same time, and they've gotten to know each other and they've gotten to learn about each other's lives. And one particular couple, I'm pretty sure is going to be brought into my social circle here pretty soon because they're going to be invited to our house for dinner. So I can see... But that is interesting, I mean it is. It's a high interest. It's something you're doing on a really pretty regular basis, and they are too. And you bring it out of the dog park, and we're not going to be friends with, good friends, with all of them. But I think it's a numbers game like you were saying. It's like, okay, but if one or two of them can be good friends outside of the dog park, you've kind of won the lottery a little bit.
Caroline Maguire:
And the key is to offer a next step. So I want to give full credit, I got this from my college roommate and she listens to probably everything I do. So she's screaming at the thing right now. Say it, say it, say it. But if you are with someone and you want to bridge, you're like, oh, the dog park people are awesome. And by the way, when my husband was in graduate school, I had these two very badly behaved dogs and they were lovely, but they needed energy out and just walking them alone, I couldn't get them to move enough because they were terriers. So I brought them all the time to the dog park, and I did meet people there. I met people who I know to this day, and they were mostly students at my husband's graduate school, but it didn't matter. I wouldn't have met them otherwise.
So you offer a next step, and the best next step involves your area of interest. So if you both love a musician, like, "Hey, they're in concert. Hey, let's go listen to the cover band or whatever." But if not, just like, hey... And I think a lot of people will write me and DM me, they're like, offer something other than coffee. I'm like, okay, you can do stuff. You can go to the farmer's market together. You can offer them to do errands with you. But the best next step, I think is something that they would be interested in. "Hey, you love Bob Dylan. You told me that at the dog park. Pete says this movie is fabulous. Let's go see the movie."
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's great.
Pete Wright:
That's good stuff. And it just makes me reflect on the fact that like Nikki's world, my world has gotten increasingly insular because after the pandemic, all of my clients became remote clients. I just don't work with anybody else that's outside of my house. I feel like so much of the struggle is an own goal. I forgot that in order to make new friends, I have to go see people.
Caroline Maguire:
I think we all did. This is a national crisis, and an international crisis. This isn't just Pete, this isn't just Caroline. People have said that they don't go as many places. They don't do as many things. Our number of hours spent socializing with people has dropped dramatically.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. I can see that.
Pete Wright:
You can feel it.
Nikki Kinzer:
I feel it too. Yeah, for sure. This was great. Thank you so much.
Pete Wright:
Wait, we got a fantasy question.
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh, we do.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. This is for you too. So get ready.
Nikki Kinzer:
Okay.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. If you could choose one celebrity living or dead to be friends with, who would it be and why?
Caroline Maguire:
Okay, that's easy. I thought about this. Dolly Parton.
Nikki Kinzer:
She would be lovely, wouldn't she?
Pete Wright:
Oh, Dolly.
Caroline Maguire:
Because I, for the past year, have been really trying to, I've been doing something that anybody can do, because I never leave the house, and I even have wonderful, rich friend conversations, but they're online, I gave myself a challenge. Every day I leave the house and I do a couple of errands because I'm always like, I don't have time. I don't have time. And then I'm door dashing, but that perpetuates the thing. So I say hi to the barista or whatever, and it's really filled my cup. I've been also trying to be positive and more Zen, which is not a natural state for me.
And I feel like whenever I see Dolly Parton and she says something, or I see a clip of her online, she is so sanguine and smart and rise above and grounded. And I'm like, I want to be that way. So I would love to meet her and I would love to hear from her and talk to her because I think she's kind of a beautiful soul. And then I would be like, how do I become less up here and always sort of hyper aroused and more like, well, things will work out.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah, everything's going to be fine.
Caroline Maguire:
How do you do that Dolly?
Pete Wright:
Nikki, what do you got?
Nikki Kinzer:
Well, the first person that comes to my mind is Jason Mraz.
Pete Wright:
I mean, we've Google Maps stalked Jason Mraz.
Nikki Kinzer:
I know where he lives in San Diego. Yes. I stalked him. I was going to be in San Diego, and I was wondering, I wonder where he lives in San Diego. We figured it out. No, but the reason is because he's an inspiration to me for his music. He's so positive. He's so optimistic. He's very laid-back. I think I would love to have an evening where he just brings his guitar and just starts singing and telling me the origins of his songs and where they came from and why he wrote what he did. And I just think it would be a really interesting conversation and he'd be fun to hang out with.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Caroline Maguire:
Yeah. I will come to that meeting if you want me to come.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. Yeah. That'd be great. What about you, Pete?
Pete Wright:
For me, it's the funny people. I would love to have a good hang with Colin Jost or Andy Samberg or John Mulaney. I just think that would be amazing. And I do have a list of people that is titled Pete's Best Friends Who Haven't Met Him Yet, and they're all on that list. So it's not like I'm not aspirational about having more strong friendships. I list things. It's like this close to having washy tape on it, I'm so [inaudible 00:44:28].
Caroline Maguire:
I feel like I see in the future, like a board with yarn connecting each of the things. And I want to caution you not to do that.
Pete Wright:
You think I'm going to get a murder board to track my aspirational friendships? I wrote down... Oh my God, Caroline, you're the best. Thank you so much for being here. Where do you want us to send people to learn more about what you're up to?
Caroline Maguire:
I would love to have you send people to my Instagram, I am doing a ton, AuthorCarolineM and or you can literally just Google Caroline Maguire or Why Will No One Play With Me and everything comes up. I'm doing a lot of longer YouTube videos now, and you can find them from my Instagram. And people write me and they have social dilemmas, and then I make videos about them. So not naming them or anything, just, hey, here's a general dilemma.
Pete Wright:
Caroline [inaudible 00:45:30] people who write up.
Caroline Maguire:
But if you have a dilemma, let me know and I will give you my advice.
Nikki Kinzer:
That's awesome. I
Pete Wright:
I love it.
Nikki Kinzer:
I love that.
Pete Wright:
I love it. Well, thank you so much for being here. Everybody check the show notes for all of those links. We'll put them in there, nestled right there underneath this podcast. I don't know, swipe up or swipe to the side. It's going to be great whichever way you swipe and you're going to learn more. And thank you everybody for being here. We appreciate your time and your attention. On behalf of Caroline Maguire and Nikki Kinzer, my dear friend, Nikki Kinzer, I'm Pete Wright. And we'll see you next week right here on Taking Control, the ADHD podcast.
