Aging, ADHD, and Letting Go with Jami Shapiro

ADHD Organizing

Nov 20

Aging with ADHD often hides in the background of our conversations, even though so many of us feel its effects every day. In this episode, we bring it forward with help from Jami Shapiro, whose work sits right at the intersection of ADHD, transitions, and later-life planning. She’s a senior move manager, ADHD coach, and the voice behind Grandma Has ADHD. Her mix of humor, candor, and lived experience sets the tone for a conversation that feels both comforting and disarming.

Jami’s ADHD diagnosis arrived in her mid-40s, long after she had built a career, raised children, and weathered major life changes. The bigger surprise came later: realizing her mother had been living with ADHD as well, completely undiagnosed into her seventies. That discovery reshaped not only Jami’s understanding of her family history but also the emotional patterns she had carried for decades. It softened old misunderstandings and gave her and her mother a way to talk to each other that hadn’t existed before.

From there, the conversation widens into the many transitions that come with midlife and beyond—downsizing, empty rooms once filled by children, changing routines, and the simple pressure of making decisions when every choice feels weighty. Jami explains how emotional intensity, uncertainty, and decision fatigue show up more sharply for ADHD adults, especially as responsibilities shift and long-established structures fall away. She walks us through what makes these transitions overwhelming and what actually helps when “just start somewhere” doesn’t land.

We also spend time on the parent–child dynamic that emerges when adult children try to help their aging parents with organizing or downsizing. Jami gives a clear look at why these roles easily tangle, how shame gets triggered on both sides, and why a neutral guide often makes the work calmer for everyone involved. Her stories from years of senior move management reveal patterns that many families will recognize instantly.

There’s also a practical side to this conversation: how to create a floor plan before a move, how to sort sentimental objects without spiraling, how to use photos and “family show-and-tell” conversations to preserve memories, and how to stay grounded when technology becomes a barrier. Jami talks openly about scams, tech overwhelm, and the very real worries older adults carry about cognitive decline—topics that are easier to avoid than to name, but essential for keeping ourselves and our loved ones safe.

The heart of this episode is simple: learning about ADHD later in life doesn’t erase the years behind you, but it can change how you interpret them. It can ease old guilt, untangle family stories, and give you permission to approach the next chapter with more clarity and less self-blame. Jami’s work is full of that spirit, and her guidance makes the process of aging with ADHD feel less isolating and more like something we can navigate together.

Links & Notes

Pete Wright
Hello, everybody, and welcome to Taking Control, the ADHD podcast on TruStory FM. I'm Pete Wright, and I'm here with Nikki Kinzer. Hello, Nikki.
Nikki Kinzer
Hello Hello everyone. Hello, Pete Wright.
Pete Wright
Are you ready for this?
Nikki Kinzer
I am.
Pete Wright
Are you feeling your age?
Nikki Kinzer
Every morning, every day.
Pete Wright
Every day We are talking about something that we don't talk about enough. That is the ADHD brain and organizing and doing it as you get older and older. 'Cause you know what? ADHD doesn't doesn't go away. It doesn't turn out, it doesn't go away as you get older. So we're gonna admit that truth today.
Nikki Kinzer
Yeah.
Pete Wright
And we have a fantastic guest to help us out. Before we dig into that subject, however, uh, if this show has ever helped you understand your relationship with ADHD in a new way, we're asking for your support over at patreon. com slash the ADHD podcast. It's just a few dollars a month. You can help keep us growing the show, putting shoes on our feet and foods on our tables. We also, of course, have lots of great perks for you at the different tiers, including joining us for these live stream recording sessions. where you can actually chat and ask questions uh live as we record. We sure would appreciate your support. There. You can find us at take controlADHD. com to subscribe to the mailing list and we'll send you an email each time a new episode is released. And of course, connect with us on Facebook or Instagram or Pinterest or Blue Sky at take control ADHD. And uh for real-time communication, you can join the ADHD Discord community for free. Just head over to take controladh. com slash discord. Our guest today is Jami Shapiro, founder of Silverlining's Transitions and host of the Grandma Has ADHD podcast. Which is the best title of a podcast that I have heard in a long, long time. Uh Jami is a certified senior move manager. Certified senior advisor and level two specialist in ADHD with the Institute for Challenging Disorganization. As the adult child of two ADHD parents and someone recently diagnosed herself, Jami brings both professional expertise and deeply personal insight to helping families move from frustration to compassion. Today we're going to dive into how ADHD brains process transitions differently, why Even positive changes can feel overwhelming. And what actually works when traditional organizing advice falls flat? Jami, welcome to the show.
Jami Shapiro
Why thank you, thank you. And oh so I have a couple corrections. I was diagnosed 10 years ago, so I don't think that's newly, but I was 45, so I lived the majority of my life. Not knowing, not knowing ADHD's impact. And then I completed I it wasn't until I realized that my mom had ADHD two years ago. So she was 76.
Pete Wright
Okay.
Jami Shapiro
that I really stepped into the ADHD space. I knew that I had a child with ADHD, what because of course along like a a lot of other, you know, women, I was diagnosed alongside my child
Pete Wright
I knew that I had children before a lot of other reviews and I was trying to do the comment like a child.
Jami Shapiro
Um, but it was when my mom was diagnosed that my whole ADHD world opened up and I ended up becoming an ADHD coach through ADCA, writing a book, starting the podcast.
Pete Wright
Um my mom didn't Yeah.
Jami Shapiro
That was really the big shift.
Pete Wright
Sure. Good, good, good. Well, it's so interesting that you talk about it that way because like my dad died uh w when I I three years ago now. And one of the most interesting things we learned about my dad after his death was when my mom woke up to the fact that he had been living with ADHD all his life. Life and had struggled mightily, mightily when he when he retired from his job in the news business. And I I I think my mom also lives w with a little of it. Don't I mean don't tell her. We're not talking about that yet. And uh and so it is this has become for us, I think over the same period. I think two, three years, just a really interesting place to explore from the ADHD perspective. So I'm really glad you're here. And I would like to say Nikki was just on Grandma Has ADHD. A couple of days ago and came back, and this is what she said.
Jami Shapiro
She was yes
Pete Wright
Oh my God, uh, this is going to be so great. I learned so much. I already did the rundown and I'm ready. I'm ready. So
Jami Shapiro
Nice.
Pete Wright
I Nikki, take it away. Where would you like to start?
Nikki Kinzer
You talked about the switch. Like it just a couple of years ago you decided to go into the ADHD or talk more about ADHD. And when before we got on the show, you even mentioned, and this is so true, this is not talked a lot about.
Pete Wright
And when before we got you on the show, this would not talk a lot about right how about that?
Nikki Kinzer
Tell us about that. Like what what um what have you found when you went into the ADHD community and the resources and and it
Pete Wright
Like what what uh what are you now doing?
Nikki Kinzer
D did you find people talking about retirement and things like that at all? Or were you like, oh no, this is right up my alley and
Jami Shapiro
Right, so So, you know, I I'm gonna repeat a lot for you, you know, and I know that there's the now and not now.
Pete Wright
I've got to repeat a lot really now every time.
Jami Shapiro
Everybody in ADHD, the ADHD world knows it. And so, you know, those of us, you know, in our 40s, 50s, 60s, we aren't considering what aiding, aging with ADHD is going to look like. So that I'm gonna leave that part alone for now because what I want to talk about is something that no one is is really looking at and dis and talking about and that is that you have whole generations of, I'm gonna say women only because inattentive ADHD tends to go more with women. And if you w if you had hyperactivity, it was more likely to be called out. So, uh, Pete, my mom and dad both have ADHD. We knew my dad had ADHD. You know, my half-brother was diagnosed. He was the kid put on Ritalin in the eighties. So that was a known. So when when my child was diagnosed, I'm like, well, and I have it, my dad had it, right? So I'm really focusing more on women also because Women have more responsibil, especially traditionally, had more responsibilities in running the household than than you know a father might have. And it definitely affected my kids when I was missing teeth parent-teacher conferences. and didn't have the gold stars. So w so how this is all interplaying is that I've I started my career and Well, my restarted a career because it, you know, we a lot of us tend to do a bunch of different things, but I joined NASA, which is the National Association of Senior Move Managers. um about 13 years ago and started a senior move management business. Do you guys know what that is? Because I want to make sure that if you don't we're
Pete Wright
Oh, I want you to tell it doesn't matter what we think. We need to talk about it for the people who are listening.
Jami Shapiro
Okay. Thank you, thank you. So I I actually joined NASA and we are more than a national organization now, but It is predominantly an industry that started helping seniors when they were going through the downsizing, which we now call right sizing process, which is a very overwhelming experience. Typically in Nobody really likes moving. It's one of life's biggest stressors, whether you're neurodiverse or neurotypical. It's it's a big process. It's uprooting, it's change. But for seniors who are having to say goodbye to a lifetime of belongings, usually going from a larger space to a smaller one. you know, maybe going from a home where they've lived into either m living closer to adult children or moving into a senior community, there's a lot more change. And so they really need experts who can guide them through the process, bring in all of the resources, help them make the decisions. So that's that's how this whole thing started as my second career. And I named my company Silver Linings Transitions. Because I actually had cancer a little over 20 years ago and I was working as a realtor. And so the silver lining was reevaluating my life. So having said that, I am now building silver linings transitions and at the time I did not know I had ADHD. I discover that I have ADHD about a year into the business. And at that time, I'm now going through a divorce, starting a business, raising three children who were at that time 13, 11, and 6. And the psychiatrist who evaluates my child says, Oh yeah, you you have it. Okay, well I'm 45 years old. I have ADHD. I graduated college with high honors. Why does it matter? And I just, you know, kept going right along. And then when I was studying for b to become a level two specialist with the ICD. Um I was listening to a podcast where they said that it's very common for women to who have ADHD to also have migraine headaches and fibromyalgia. And it was like the light bulb that went off because my mom had struggled with fibromyalgia and migraine headaches for years. And I called my mom and I used to, by the way, as part of what I would do as a senior move manager, I would do downsizing presentations. And I would go into senior communities and libraries and senior centers and help people you know, talk about the idea of downsizing. So I would stand up in front of an audience full of people and say, you know, I come from a family with hoarding disorder because my mom had piles of stuff everywhere, which if you looked at it from the outside, you would think that was hoarding. I called my mom and I said, Mom, I don't think you have hoarding disorder. I think you have ADHD. Listen to this podcast. Well, this is where it gets really interesting. So my mom listens to the podcast and it sort of all starts to make sense. So my mom goes to the psychiatrist who's been treating her for anxiety and depression the majority of her life. She talks to her therapist and she talks to her general practitioner who all confirm, yeah, sounds like you probably have ADHD, but her psychiatrist then proceeds to say, we don't do anything for seniors who have ADHD, which is Absolutely not true. Yeah, I saw you both jump.
Nikki Kinzer
Yeah, so crazy
Jami Shapiro
So now everybody right may not be eligible for medication. But that doesn't mean that there aren't things that can be done through coaching and building a scaffolding and better understanding. And I actually just had um Dr. Michael Lenz on my podcast who wrote who has the fibromyalgia podcast and he only happened to learn about ADHD when he was becoming a pediat pediatrician in in medical school because uh Dr. John Rady had come, which, you know, he's like a pioneer in the ADHD space now. But he said, you know, he even said most uh healthcare providers, especially those dealing with older adults, they have no training on ADHD. And he was even told every seven years everything changes. And so they they haven't spent a lot of time and they don't understand the impact. And truthfully, I didn't understand the impact until I went through ADHD coach training myself and realized how many areas ADHD touches in someone's life.
Nikki Kinzer
So let's talk about that a little bit with transitions, right? Because that's what we're talking about. And we're talking about this major transition. From living in this family home into wherever you're going. And we're also talking about where like uh we are at with our kids moving out also. So now we've got, you know, what used to be a a teenage boy's room is now a guest room and what do I do with all of this stuff, right? I mean there's just all these transitions. So can you tell us a little bit about like why is it harder when you have ADHD? when these transitions are happening.
Jami Shapiro
Sure. So I think the few challenges that make it, and I think it's again, it's hard. Transitions are not usually easy for most people. So I do want to acknowledge that. But when you have ADHD, I think part of it is the out of sight, out of mind. Like you're afraid because you know that you forget a lot. And if you don't see this tangible thing, you're afraid you may not remember it. So that's that holding on to the memory. Transitions generally are harder for people with ADHD. And it's funny, I always thought that that transition was, you know, like a move, but a transition can even be I'm working on this project. You want me to stop what I'm doing and go do something else, right? So a transition is hard and it's uncertainty. Nobody, especially in ADHD Uncertainty is overwhelming. So my life is going to change. What's that going to look like for me? Um, and then it's a daunting task. It's a big project with a lot of decisions. you know, when we are faced with a lot of decisions, we will, you know, go into that decision paralysis. And, you know, and then where do I begin? You know, there's just so much at play with ADHD when it comes to whether you're making a move or transitioning that you know bedroom and and by the way I I can speak to that my my youngest child is a senior in high school and I'm looking at my own life and realizing oh this this part of my life is changing and that's really scary, you know, it's so
Nikki Kinzer
I I found it to be really scary, but also like I had a lot of grief when I was going through it, like a lot of sadness. And that th that surprised me. I I knew I would feel some, but I didn't know I would feel the the heaviness of it that I actually felt when I was going through it.
Pete Wright
Which which has a direct impact on decision making, right? I was when when my first left, I was uh in inconsolable for
Nikki Kinzer
Sure.
Pete Wright
uh for a while. Like I couldn't I I just w didn't want to go into their room. I didn't want to like it was it it it hit me uh Hard. And I know other parents who who just didn't have to do that, but man, I took it as a straight hit in RSD. I th it it was it felt just like I had been rejected. Uh, even though it's ex it exactly what happened was what was supposed to happen.
Nikki Kinzer
What is supposed what was supposed to happen, right?
Jami Shapiro
I'm having right.
Pete Wright
Yeah, right. It doesn't doesn't matter in my in my constitution.
Jami Shapiro
Mean
Pete Wright
Uh that's not what it felt like.
Jami Shapiro
Yeah, we are emotionally dysregulated. When I, you know, and that was one of the things that Dr. Michael Lenz had brought up. You know, we may feel pain more intensely, we feel emotions more intensely. That's why, you know, we can be described as too much. And, you know, I write in my book that my high school crush just told me I was just a lot, you know, and that was why it wasn't that I wasn't pretty enough for him, but he just didn't want to deal with all of that.
Nikki Kinzer
Yeah
Pete Wright
Oh my god, that's horrible. I feel like we should go back to that at some point, but we're not going to.
Jami Shapiro
Oh, it's a trauma. It's a trauma.
Pete Wright
It's trauma. Yeah, right. Goodness
Jami Shapiro
Yeah.
Nikki Kinzer
Well, so how do we how do we get started then? Like one of the things that I learned about from from being on your show uh was you had talked about adult children and how sometimes making decluttering can make that actually when you're doing it with your parent can make it harder instead of easier. Um, so tell us a little bit more about that, because that really struck me.
Jami Shapiro
Sure. So it's actually really regarded in in the industry that I am in that, you know Adult children want to step in and parent their their a their adult parent, their senior parent, right? And and we're and they're losing and it you know, a senior is just like we just talked about what the loss that we're having as our children are leaving us and you know that that's another transition and so you know First of all, a lot of those older adults, they don't want to be parented by their adult child, right? And a lot of times we as adult children also don't want to really take on that role of having to parent. Like we want our parent to remain our parent. And when you come into your parents' home and say, Mom, you don't need that. You don't, you know, that's that's taking on a parenting role And and that's creating conflict where this should be a time where where a parent is transitioning, where that adult child is is really coming alongside of them and supporting them and not you know taking on an adverse adversarial role. And so, you know, it's it's funny because and and I experienced this personally, you know, with my own mom. And even though I have a business that helps people do this You know, they listen more to a professional. And that really should be that neutral third party can even though the adult child might say the same thing, it lands really differently when it comes from a professional or an and it's also you know generationally as well. I mean if you think about, you know, our parents and their parents like professionals did what and they they took the words of professionals Um, in a way that it's probably gonna change, but that's where we're at right now.
Pete Wright
You know what's so interesting about that though is like like I I not though, like all what's really interesting about that, full stop, is that I uh when I think about my dad, like when he left the newsroom, which was uh I he was also he was in the Navy, incredible amount of scaffolding, right? Like he was told what to do and when to do it and how to do it and then did it. Then he went into the news business where it was just response, response, response, response, response. Right. And he did that for decades. It was when he retired that the ADHD starts to come out and he starts making decisions that begin to demand that he be parented, and I'm saying that in quotes, but he did things that were irresponsible because he was at an attentional deficit, right? He could not keep his he he was just dopamine hungry. As he aged progressively, he became more intent on doing things that were um radical c when compared to his personality for the first sixty years of his life. And I find that really interesting from the perspective of aging in ADHD as a as an adult child of an ADHD. You're absolutely right. I don't want to parent my parents, but then I need to figure out how to help them not do things that demand that they be parented, right? That demand that I help them figure out how to make good decisions.
Jami Shapiro
Mm-hmm. So, you know, I I I am also a certified senior advisor and I that's also a national organization. It may even be more than national, but That is somebody that that can really go in and assess the situation, tell you what resources are available, point you in the right direction, because that's the other thing in our society, and this is one of my soapboxes, is We don't want to talk about aging. I mean, we even, you know, call it anti-aging. You know, there's anti-aging commercials, but having had cancer, you know, 20 years ago, I want to age because I know that the alternative was not to, right? And so part of it is. We as a society are not prepared for what what aging is going to bring and we don't want to have those conversations because we'd rather, you know, put our our heads in the sand. But I love the expression, just because your eyes are closed doesn't mean it isn't there. So that's also going to be a part of the equation. So we're we're just not looking at aging generally.
Pete Wright
Well, and and we I I think b you know, uh credit to my mom, it took some years to figure out how to get comfortable with using the kind of language. That would allow us as a family to come together and start talking about these hard things. It took years, but eventually we could kind of get there. And that's hard.
Jami Shapiro
I was gonna say that's also generationally. I mean, you know, our kids talk about things openly. It's like if you don't have some sort of you know, neurot you diversity, something is wrong with you, right? But but our parents were very stoic. And my mother talks about, you know, going to a therapist and my grandfather did not want to discuss it, did not want to know about it. You know, we just keep it all in. So kudos to your mom for you know co going in and asking for that help. I want to mention another reason that retirement can be so so hard for people with AHD to use your point, you know, your dad had that scaffolding, right? And, you know, I I'm sure you guys have heard that the incidence of ADHD went up during COVID because all of a sudden people were faced with all of these tasks. They didn't have the scaffolding. And I know for me, the more decisions that I have to make, the more overwhelmed I am. If you give me a day with nothing planned, I will shut down versus if I have like a big to-do list and I know this, this, this, and this. And then I learned something wonderful from um uh copper. I can't remember his his first name now.
Nikki Kinzer
Oh, Jeff.
Jami Shapiro
Thank you.
Nikki Kinzer
Mm-hmm.
Jami Shapiro
He was just for the second time on my podcast because he is introducing something that is brilliant and I don't remember what it's called, but basically we like to verbally, you know process and talk to other people as a sounding board and bouncing things and then you know and then we we can become it becomes clearer you know clear for us If you are living alone for the first time, you know, you don't have a spouse, your kids aren't there, you're not working, who do you process with?
Nikki Kinzer
So this is a little bit of a different s I'm taking kind of a side detour a little bit, but it comes up and it kind of goes back to what Pete was asking around. you don't want to be the parent, but what if you see something that comes up that that concerns you? And one of the things I think now that is just getting worse is all of the different scams and frauds and things that you see in the older generation um and how susceptible they are. you know, to these things. And I'm just curious. I know it's completely outside of the organizing realm, but because you've worked with seniors, I'm just how do you address that? And how do you address it as a as a daughter or son, you know, that is worried about their loved one?
Jami Shapiro
Sure. Well first of all I I think that it's really important that our parents don't want to feel judged or like that they can't keep it together, you know, and and I will tell you, even in my experience, you know, I've had a few of those things come across my desk and or my computer and I panic. And, you know, so I'm I can so see easily how that scam would happen. Or, you know, especially now with AI, you know, grandpa don't, you know, and and I have had clients who have sent target gift cards. So part of it is destigmatization of it. There's no judgment here. Like we're all getting trapped. So to start from that place, like hey, this isn't coming from judgment at all. I'm I'm there with you. But you know, let's have some things in place that, you know, if you get a call for money or you get a call, hey, well, why don't you just hang up the phone? And this actually happened with my own child that lives in New York. I got a a recently got a text message, hey mom. I uh my phone was stolen. Use this number now. And and and so thankfully I reached out to their partner and said, hey, I got this message. Is it you know, and and it was a scam. It was a scam.
Nikki Kinzer
Wow
Pete Wright
I I I'll just say as an aside for for all three of us who have our you know, records of our voices on the internet easily accessible. It took me about 30 seconds to create a serviceable clone of my own voice and use it to call my mom. and uh trick her, right? To think that it was actually me on the phone. And I just would say it with your loved ones, have a code word.
Jami Shapiro
We have that in my family.
Pete Wright
That, yep, gotta have a code word.
Nikki Kinzer
Yeah, we do too.
Jami Shapiro
Which you're not gonna hear. You're not gonna hear that on this idea.
Pete Wright
Nope. You're not going to hear it here.
Nikki Kinzer
No, no.
Pete Wright
Nope.
Jami Shapiro
Mm-hmm.
Pete Wright
Have a family code word because the scams are just going to get uh better and more authentic.
Jami Shapiro
Yeah.
Nikki Kinzer
Yeah.
Jami Shapiro
Uh-huh.
Pete Wright
Yep.
Jami Shapiro
And just remember they're coming from a place where they're afraid you're judging them. They recognize You know, here's the thing. Cognitive decline is a normal part of aging. You know, it it's just, it is a normal part. What I, you know, have learned is that it isn't that they aren't able to do the same task, but it takes longer. And there's an awareness and there's also fear, you know, and what's interesting too is especially if people don't know they have ADHD and all of a sudden they're you know, forgetting where they you know place things, they can't remember someone's name, they're dropping words. Those are also signs of ADHD. But in somebody that didn't realize they had ADHD and it's becoming more pronounced, then there's more fear, oh, what if I have dementia? So You know, that's the elephant in the room. And that is, you know, we we, I don't know that we're going to be able to turn this boat around, but it would be wonderful if we could stop fearing aging. and and and embrace it and and and put our parents back to that role of elders and letting them, you know, sort of be the wise counsel that they used to be. But that's a whole other conversation.
Pete Wright
Well, I it's it sorta, but I'm I just love the way you put it that n you know, w we should love getting older. We should love celebrating what it means to age. Right? Sure, it comes with trade-offs, but the the benefits are, my goodness, we get to live a long life and and let's appreciate that. I think that's really beautiful. And I think that fear, I mean we're talking about it in terms of scams and and And ways to take advantage of of people. But that's also what gets in the way of all of the things that we have to do as we age in decision making. and letting go during transitions and you know, decluttering and um keeping, you know, our heads about our real estate and our, you know, our own homes and all of those things. Uh uh I I think because of the benefit of the long life, it's it's hard to separate the the meaning of the the stuff that we have from the meaning of the memories of that long life of the things that we've had and we've done.
Jami Shapiro
And I wanna give you another observation that I have actually come up with personally, which is really gonna impact our stuff. And that is, and I think especially with ADHD, you know, I think of Martha Stewart, right? And she is she just seems to be able to do it all and put it all together and So you think uh I'm going to be able to do that, or I want to be able to do that, or I envision me being the person that that can do that. And so I also think, and so we will go out and we'll buy all the things and, you know, and then of course we lose interest and move on to the next thing. But I also think that part of it is unrealized dreams. It's the this is who I thought I was gonna be or what I thought I was gonna be able to do. And you know, so this is the guitar that I was gonna, you know, learn to play And now letting go of that guitar is the is is confessing, hey, I I never really did do that, you know. So I think that's definitely gotta be a part of the conversation on right sizing or downsizing.
Pete Wright
Oh my god, I was that guy. I mean, I play a little guitar. I've got a guitar, but when I was I I uh got into that era and I thought, you know what, I'm a I'm a big kid now. I'm an adult. I can afford a nice guitar. I think I'll buy a nice guitar and learn to play it. And that I had that guitar hanging on my wall. For 10 years. Right. It just like barely played, covered in dust. And that letting go was a catharsis. And I think we forget, like we get it so in our heads about the act of giving of letting go. that we equate letting go with giving up. And those two things aren't the same.
Nikki Kinzer
And I think it's such an important point, too, for someone who doesn't have ADHD. And I can see why having that understanding is so important because then you can go into the conversation with the person who has EDHG with so much more compassion. and understanding because they are feeling much more intense feelings that this isn't just a guitar. This is much more to them. And so if we can educate folks and understand that it's at a different level. And we have to work through that and acknowledge it and not just downplay it and be like, oh, just get rid of it. Right? Like you never used it. Who cares? Like you can imagine all the things that you could say. Like, no, we need to be, we need to sit with it and and work with work through it and and figure out what to do.
Jami Shapiro
Yeah, and I wanna I I don't want to leave this conversation without sharing something with you guys, and that is that I hear this all the time. Why does it matter? You know, w and I in fact when I went to the international ADHD conference last year and I was super excited and my former mother in law I call her my mother outlaw says, you know, why does it matter? They've lived all these years without knowing. Why does it matter? And And, you know, first of all, at what point do you want to stop growing and sit in a rocking chair and not want to, you know, understand yourself better? But but there is a term that I learned about. It's called gero transcendence. Um and it is so Eric Erickson when he he was a famous sociologist and he came up with the eight life stages and when he and his wife got into their eighties and they had all their contemporaries who were you know, in their 80s, he started to, as a sociologist would, you know, talk to them. Where are you? What and he discovered Jarotranscendence, which was developed by somebody else, but it's that ninth stage of life where we are retrospective and we're looking at our lives and we're questioning our choices and we're making people peace with our choices. And I think when you f understand ADHD and that that has been at play, then you can look at your life through a different lens. And I think that that's I what you know what I hear consistently when people are diagnosed is the grief and the relief that comes from the diagnosis, right? So especially for someone who's lived their entire life cobbling it together. not knowing that, you know, and and my mom and my relationship is like the perfect example of and of this. And that is that I my mom and I have been at odds since I can remember. She put too much on me as a child. I felt responsible for carrying a lot of her emotional load. My mom started really, you know, uh, I would say hoarding, but not quite. You know, she started bringing, especially after my grandmother passed away, she started to bring too much into her home, you know, and then and then I got to the point that I couldn't even go into my mom's home because I couldn't look the visual pollution was just overcoming. And then I felt responsibility for the way my mom was living. And when we both understood that this whole time it had been ADHD, our entire relationship transformed.
Nikki Kinzer
Yeah, I bet.
Pete Wright
Yeah, right. It's like waking up.
Nikki Kinzer
Mm-hmm.
Pete Wright
It's like waking up waking up to something to a whole entire new language.
Nikki Kinzer
So I want to get to the support. So here you are, you're working, you you have a team of people that work with you and for you and in your company and you guys help people with these transitions and what first of all I have two questions. One is like where do you start when you like actually are down? Let's just say right sizing. Like this, this is I'm moving away from my family home. I don't want all of the responsibility. Kids are grown up. Whatever, not going into a retirement home, just getting a different, smaller house. What's the starting point on that?
Jami Shapiro
That's that's great. It's with a plan. You always start with a plan. So the first thing that we'll do once we, you know, sign a contract with a client is we want to do their floor plan. So we're gonna measure their space where they're going. And then we're going to meet with them in their home. We're going to, you know, get to know what are their habits. You know, where where is their favorite chair? And then we're also going to evaluate you know, their m their their safety. You know, if they if they're bringing a couch that doesn't have armchairs and they're, you know, aging and we know they're gonna have to get on and off the couch, then that's gonna be a a conversation for us to say, hey, we we want to factor in your safety. Ultimately It's your home, you're the client, but I think anybody who doesn't know where they're going, having a a roadmap and that plan is going to be the first step.
Nikki Kinzer
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then what are the strategies around or what do you recommend with those tough decisions? decisions because you are moving into a smaller space. So not everything can come with you. How do you help them with what kind of going to to Pete's point, like how do you how do you go away from the meaning of just, you know, this is stuff to the meaning of memories and being able to still capture those, like, or keep those in some way.
Jami Shapiro
Sure. Well, it that's where it's really good to process it with another person, you know, almost like that bodily doubling doubling of the stuff. But, you know, when you're working with with a client and they're going into a smaller space and they've got a 16-piece setting of China, you know, hey, are you gonna have those dinner parties? Or You know, or hey, you haven't used it, why don't we trade out your china for your everyday and actually enjoy it? And then, you know, because we have experience, you know, we know, especially uh if someone's going into a community, you know, what is it? It's kind of like dorm living. Like if you are constantly moving people into the dorm, then you know exactly what they're gonna need in a dorm, right? Well that's that's what the the expert has it, but when you're explaining to another person why you're keeping this, right, that then you're like, oh, and and one of the things I put in my book is if you had to explain to a friend, you know, why you were holding on to it and it sounds so silly, you know, maybe you don't really need it.
Pete Wright
That's so funny externalizing the that reaction, right? Like because and and I think that's important. It's important for me and my ADHD. to have that voice that feels not like myself because I am a lot of the time an unreliable narrator in my decision making, right?
Jami Shapiro
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Pete Wright
I feel very strongly about things and I have to I I have to in sometimes the act of increasing friction by having that at least an avatar that's externalized, like if I have to explain it to my friend or my spouse. Um what would what do I imagine they would say? I'm usually pretty clear head headed about that.
Jami Shapiro
Right. And I would say, you know, a lot of things can be remembered with pictures. You know, I I actually one of the things that I do when I do my presentation is I show my old retainer. Um, and you know, because with ADHD, you know, we think we're gonna use it again, that someday is gonna happen. And and truthfully, I had my braces in college, so I was a little more responsible. I got them off for my retainer and then kept it. All of these years. And then I when I was going through the process of after getting a divorce and having to to right size or downsize, and I looked at that retainer and I'm like, that's never gonna fit back in my mouth, right? Do you think my kids are gonna be happy because I saved it for them? Right. And so I took a picture of it and I tossed it. And when I now go out and present and people can see Like, right, there are some things we're holding on to that are just so silly. And when they see that, it, you know, it it it helps them.
Nikki Kinzer
It's such a good point. And that was one of the things I remember when uh when I was organizing and uh I was helping somebody write size now that I have a new term for it, love it. And uh it was a big family home and and she still had the dresser of her son. Teen like a basically his dresser from growing up, right? So it had all these stickers and it was all broken and everything and it was in the closet. And she's like, I just don't know what to do with it. Te And I'm like, okay, so a couple of things that we could do. One is, you know, ask if your son wants it. Maybe he wants it, right? Like he probably he has memories to it more than what you do. And He didn't want anything to do with it.
Jami Shapiro
Of course he did.
Nikki Kinzer
He didn't want it.
Jami Shapiro
That's why you saw me nod my head.
Nikki Kinzer
No.
Jami Shapiro
Nope, he doesn't want it.
Nikki Kinzer
Yeah, he didn't want it. And uh so that was my my thought too is let's just take a picture of it and let's take a picture of a lot of the things that you're left letting go in this house. Like and take pictures of the actual rooms. Like, you know, so that you still hold on to that memory. And uh and that was the relief that she was like, oh good. Okay. I can do that. Cause I think she was so afraid of of losing the memory or or that somehow that part of her life would get forgotten and and I love that idea is this take a picture of it and even if you, you know, want to write a little bit of something on it or something to you know remind you but um it lets go of the actual item but holds on to the memory makes a huge difference
Jami Shapiro
One of my favorite tips is doing a family show and tell, actually. And you know, during COVID, I did it uh before COVID, before I knew you could, you know, go on screen and capture memories and have people from different places. But I think we want to be remembered also. And so capturing a family show and tell where you I showed this was my retainer and this is what I was thinking. And then and then that's captured in all, you know, posterity. And then I can also let it go. And so, you know, that can also be, I'm touring you around my house. This was your dresser. And, you know, so that's just another layer to those photos.
Pete Wright
The uh there there's a there's a complication that comes into this process that I've I've run into, and I'm curious how you handle it, which is, you know, we're in a uh sort of technological era where everything is electronic and the act of taking a picture implies s at least some sort of savvy with the technology around phones, around photos, around the cloud, maybe, around storage and organization of digital assets that I can be frustrating for folks who don't do it. Every day. What's your line on that? Because it's it seems to run headlong into this awesome idea of taking photos and ditching the stuff. But if there's fear that you're not going to be able to wrap your head around the technology to be able to recover those memories when you need them. I can understand how that might get in the way of taking the first step.
Jami Shapiro
I love that you asked that. So uh I shared with you that I wrote a book I wanted to have my mom be a part of that book because I was really writing it to her generation. And so I set it up on Google and I wanted to do a Zoom call with my mom where I showed her how to use it. And we we could not get her on to Zoom.
Pete Wright
Yeah, step one.
Jami Shapiro
And old, right, right. Old me would have been, oh mom, are you kidding me? Right. But knew me with the compassion that I had. I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna fly out. And I'm going to sit down with you and I put my mom on the computer, showed her how to use it, and my mom edited that book like a champ. And I think we need to and you know, and I think Nikki knows when we were doing my podcast interview and I used the same platform that you do, I was struggling with getting my mic to work properly. And I'm, you know, 55 years old, so I'm in in between that being a a digital native and a digital tourist. But it it floods me and I get frustrated. So I think, especially with our parents, you know, our older generations and even our kids who have to go in and help us, I think an empathy and a compassion, hey, I didn't grow up with this and just, you know, patience, which I I I don't I know that if I hadn't discovered the ADHD thing, I would never have done that with my mom. And my mom, it it' Like she even said like she was she was almost you know so upset because she wanted to do this for me and she just couldn't make it happen. So I think that we need to ask for help. I think, you know, I think it's okay to say to an adult child, I really want to do this. And I always tell uh people, do it on a birthday, do it on Mother's Day, do it on a day when you're not gonna get a no. Because then they're they're your captive audience.
Pete Wright
Yeah, right.
Jami Shapiro
Mm-hmm.
Pete Wright
Right. Yeah, I get that all the time. My mom still asks me that. It's your my birthday's coming up. All I want is your time to teach me how to do this. right to teach me how to not feel like I'm at C when I try to check my voicemail, right?
Jami Shapiro
There is, um just to throw in one other, there are a lot of different technology tech technology classes for older adults and there are resources at senior. I mean there if you go looking, you're going to find these things. The problem is that again, people don't even know that they're out there.
Pete Wright
I think this is such a valuable conversation and it's I I think, you know, it's one of those things we're gonna keep coming back to because again, uh this is this is what we're living through. This is the kind of stuff we're seeing every day. I'm so, so grateful that you have pivoted your business to this kind of conversation, Jami. It's so uh it's so valuable to those of us living with ADHD of a certain age. And you know, we did get at the very beginning, uh, one of our um one of our members uh was kind of pro Preparing for the the live stream and was joking about, you know, what age is older? What does it mean when we say just older? And I I wanted to bring that up right here. not in our member post show because I think it's important to acknowledge that uh at least to my mind, older is uh anything it gives me the feeling of anything where I feel like the my general baseline understanding of a concept or a conceit or a technology is is feeling antiquated that I have to work harder to keep up with whatever it is I'm trying to do. And it doesn't necessarily mean it It's a specific age. It doesn't have to necessarily mean, oh, it's, oh my gosh, I'm over 50 or I'm over 60 or I'm over 70. It's It's just natural process of culture outpacing my lived experience. How do you answer that question?
Jami Shapiro
That's it that's a great way to to describe it. So I I really I'm saying 50 and over, even though I wouldn't consider myself older as a 55-year-old. But but when I, you know, go to the store or go to the gym and nobody looks at me anymore, you know, I'm I've crossed over into the I'm older, but you know, and it's also easier for me, and I'm not a grandma yet, by the way, but it was easier for me to say my audience is 50 and over because I can't speak to the experience of being 70, because I'm not. And I think a lot of it again back to the anti-aging, if we saw aging as a, you know, you get to and and you have, it's kind of like levels in a game, right? I've surpassed this level and now I'm at the older level, right? Then we would our language wouldn't matter when we use that word or senior, right?
Pete Wright
Right. Senior. Remember when it was like it was so cool to be a senior In high school.
Jami Shapiro
Oh, I was gonna say like I'm looking at you like Right.
Pete Wright
It was dope.
Nikki Kinzer
Oh
Pete Wright
Yeah. Yeah. It was really cool.
Jami Shapiro
Uh-huh.
Pete Wright
And now it's like, oh man.
Jami Shapiro
Mm-hmm.
Pete Wright
But I will say this. Let me just say this. I I joined uh AARP yesterday for the discounts, y'all.
Jami Shapiro
Oh
Pete Wright
They are sick.
Nikki Kinzer
Yeah.
Pete Wright
There are sick discounts. Like that's something to look forward to. And who knew I would be celebrating that in public out loud.
Jami Shapiro
Nice, nice.
Pete Wright
All right. Well, hey.
Jami Shapiro
I was just gonna say I think you could get the card at forty-five.
Pete Wright
Yeah. Yeah, you can.
Nikki Kinzer
There you go.
Pete Wright
And I I I I d kept putting it away because I didn't want to admit it. And finally I was like, oh, you know what? Who cares? Who cares? It comes with a with a cooler. They're sending me the cooler. I'll take the cooler.
Nikki Kinzer
That's awesome. Take that cooler.
Pete Wright
Yeah, I know. Look at this. Alyssa in the chat room is already saying, Pete, it took you this long to join with many question marks. I know. I didn't want to admit it, but today I'm feeling really strong.
Nikki Kinzer
There you go.
Jami Shapiro
Good for ya.
Pete Wright
It's good. I'm very proud.
Jami Shapiro
Celebrate it.
Nikki Kinzer
That's right.
Pete Wright
Jami, tell us, so where do you want to send people to learn more about the work that you do? Besides, of course, the get grandma has ADHD.
Jami Shapiro
So if you are looking for home organizing or move management in San Diego or the Coachella Valley, that would be silver lining's transitions. But for your listeners, who might want help with a move and they didn't even know that this existed. I'm actually part of, I'm a board of directors member for NASAM. That's NASMM. org. and they can find people who do what we do in San Diego in other places. And if they want to find me specifically, I uh I do coaching and downsizing clubs. and workshops at J-Me J A M I Shapiro S-H-A-P-I-R-O. me. Couldn't get the dot com for my own name, but I actually think me, because I'm I'm living. Like I here I am. When I'm me, you get to be you.
Nikki Kinzer
Ah, love that.
Pete Wright
Uh I've actually been buying domains at dot fun lately.
Nikki Kinzer
It's great.
Jami Shapiro
Oh, I didn't know.
Pete Wright
Do you know dot fun exists? You bet it does.
Jami Shapiro
Dot fun.
Pete Wright
Yeah.
Jami Shapiro
Mm.
Pete Wright
Uh-huh.
Jami Shapiro
Jami Shapiro dot fun.
Pete Wright
That's dot fun. That's has a whole new vibe.
Jami Shapiro
Woo for the other side.
Pete Wright
Yeah, that's right.
Nikki Kinzer
That's right.
Pete Wright
All right, everybody. Thank you so much for hanging out with us. Thanks for downloading and listening to the show. And thank you for all of your time and your attention. Don't forget if you have something to contribute to the conversation, we're heading over to the Show Talk channel in the Discord server, and you can join us right there by becoming a supporting member at the deluxe level or better. Patreon. com slash the ADHD podcast. On behalf of Nikki Kinzer and Jami Shapiro. I'm Pete Wright. We'll see you right back here next week on Taking Control, the ADHD podcast.