The Cannonball Runs • A What's That Smell Anxiety Special
Tommy Metz III is a filmmaker and storyteller in Los Angeles, CA. He directed the feature film ‘30 Nights’, and his latest short ‘Static’ is going to be playing in festivals starting next month. He’s also an anxiety-riddled mess and co-host of What’s That Smell? A Sometimes-Funny Podcast about Humans and Their Anxieties. He’s here because he was dragged to be here in an effort to follow-up on the last time he was here in May 2019.
Our purpose today? We’ve talked about emotional storms in the past, credited to James Ochoa. To start us off this week: what do you do when the anxiety storm hits, the cannonball of fear in your stomach. What causes it, connects those experiences, and how do you get to the other side of it?
Along the way, we talk about our “favorite” anxieties that have come up on the WTS podcast. We talk about the contagion that is anxiety, and how easy it is to personalize other’s anxieties and make them our own. Finally, we share a segment from episode one of the seventh season of What’s That Smell at the very end of this week’s show!
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Pete Wright:
Hello everybody and welcome to Taking Control: The ADHD Podcast on TruStory FM. I'm Pete Wright, and I'm here with Nikki Kinzer.
Nikki Kinzer:
Hello everyone. Hello, Pete Wright.
Pete Wright:
Hi, Nikki. How are you?
Nikki Kinzer:
I'm doing great. How are you?
Pete Wright:
I'm doing really good. How's your kung fu today? Good? Strong? Is your kung fu strong?
Nikki Kinzer:
Very.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. That's what I-
Nikki Kinzer:
Very strong.
Pete Wright:
... like to hear. I like to hear that. I like that you're going into a show with that kind of real, big kung fu energy.
Nikki Kinzer:
High energy.
Pete Wright:
Especially because we're talking about anxiety today. But not anxiety in the form of having a doctor or a neurologist or any sort of specialist. No, it's just podcasters. But hopefully we're going to have a good time with that. We are talking to my dear friend, hopefully a friend of those in the community who've heard him before. Tommy Metz is back to talk to us. And we're going to talk a little bit about our upcoming season of What's That Smell: The Sometimes Funny Anxiety Podcast. I'm very much looking forward to that.
Before we get started, head over to takecontroladhd.com. You can get to know us a little bit better. You can listen to the show right there on the website or subscribe to the mailing list. And we will send you an email each time a new episode is released.
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Nikki Kinzer:
No.
Pete Wright:
It's a news-free week. Outstanding.
Nikki Kinzer:
No news.
Pete Wright:
Outstanding. Let's go ahead and call Tom. Hang on. Let me see if he's here. Tom?
Nikki Kinzer:
Where's Tommy?
Pete Wright:
Cue the music. Cue the music. All right.
Tommy Metz III.
Tommy Metz III:
Hello.
Pete Wright:
Hi. He's-
Tommy Metz III:
I like that there's no news. I'm trying to think, what's the opposite of "Extra, extra"?
Nikki Kinzer:
Right?
Pete Wright:
"Go back into your homes."
Nikki Kinzer:
Nothing, nothing.
Pete Wright:
"Nothing to see here. Nothing to see here." Tommy Metz III. He's a filmmaker and storyteller in Los Angeles, California. He's directed the feature film 30 Nights. And his latest short static is going to be playing in festivals starting next month. And it's dope scary and makes me sad. We'll talk more about that in a bit.
He's also an anxiety-riddled mess and co-host of What's That Smell, a sometimes funny anxiety podcast about humans and their anxieties. He's here because he was dragged here in an effort to follow up on the last time he was here, back in May of 2019. Hi Tommy, again.
Nikki Kinzer:
Ooh, pre-COVID. Wow.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, I know.
Tommy Metz III:
Yep.
Pete Wright:
We were always-
Nikki Kinzer:
Lots going on since you've been here.
Pete Wright:
... only only talking about anxiety then. That's crazy. Can you even imagine? Imagine a world.
Tommy Metz III:
I feel our anxiety bubbled up and covered the entire world. We did that. I'm sorry. For that whole lockdown, I'm sorry.
Pete Wright:
I'm not going to lie to you, that is in my notes. Not the COVID part, but we're going to talk about that.
Tommy Metz III:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
But before we talk about the anxiety stuff, I think we're... When I asked Nikki, before we started talking, before we were planning the show, I said, "What do you want to get out of a follow-up with Tom?" Nikki, do you remember what you said? God, I hope it's the same thing I wrote down.
Nikki Kinzer:
Well, I don't know-
Tommy Metz III:
[inaudible 00:03:58].
Nikki Kinzer:
... if I remember. I remember that I told you about this whole story about my mom being in the hospital and how much anxiety I felt about that. Is that what you're talking about?
Pete Wright:
That was something for sure. Well, you said to me, "I want to know about the cannonball feeling. When the instant anxiety storm comes up and you get that feeling in your stomach where you just suddenly can't function."
Nikki Kinzer:
Yes.
Pete Wright:
Does that ring a bell?
Nikki Kinzer:
This is a different story, that I was telling you about.
Pete Wright:
Yes.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah, we share anxiety stories. It's very-
Pete Wright:
So many-
Nikki Kinzer:
... depressing-
Pete Wright:
... anxiety-
Nikki Kinzer:
... really.
Pete Wright:
Well, and you should give us an update too. What is your experience with anxiety too? Just to get the people up to speed.
Nikki Kinzer:
Well, I know what you're talking about now. There was a moment where I was sitting in my chair that I sit in the living room. And my daughter was with me, and we were watching TV. And I just had this feeling. And I even said it out loud. I'm, "I have this anxious feeling in my stomach. I don't know where it's coming from. What am I anxious about?" But I just knew it was there because it was just this knot in my stomach. And I could feel it, I was uncomfortable. And I was annoyed because I couldn't pinpoint why I was feeling that way at that moment. And it came on pretty suddenly. It was just like, all of a sudden, I'm triggered by something.
Pete Wright:
That's what we were talking about. And this took me back to, to connect it to our ADHD discussions, it took me back to James Ochoa, our dear friend of the show. I know we've been emailing with him, trying to bring him back. But he came and introduced us to this concept of the emotional storms of ADHD. And his legendary storm, just so we're all on the same page, was when he'd released his audio book, and it had been out in Audible for four years, but he'd never read the comments-
Nikki Kinzer:
That's right.
Pete Wright:
So-
Nikki Kinzer:
I remember that.
Pete Wright:
... he didn't know. He discovered on one day that everybody was telling him, "Dude, you narrated your audio book and read all the punctuation" as if he was using dictation. And so, it would be, "Welcome to the emotional storms with James Ochoa, period. I wrote this book because, comma, for many reasons, comma..." And that was the experience. He didn't know that that had happened because he'd never gone back and read any of the complaint comments.
And so, all at once, he was just overwhelmed with that feeling, that emotional storm.
Tommy Metz III:
Ouch.
Pete Wright:
Right? Huge. And so, we got to talking about, what do you do when that anxiety storm hits? When you suddenly hit that panic event, and you don't know how to address it? And can't move forward, can't move backward, just can't move. And that's what, Tom, I introduced you to last night. And you started making notes so furiously that you stopped speaking to me. So I wonder if we can-
Tommy Metz III:
I turned into the serial killer from Seven. Those that have the video, I'm just writing in symbols and very small handwriting.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. What do you think? How's this hit you right now? And I know you've been doing a seven-season anxiety podcast. And so, maybe it's all fixed. Maybe you don't really relate to that anymore.
Tommy Metz III:
I fixed it. Now when I'm in therapy, we're mainly working on her problems. No. I actually just really went through something, an exact cannonball or anxiety storm, involving the short film that you mentioned. It was the first time that I've ever really made a horror thriller short. And it's a very different set of skills, audio-wise, pacing-wise, everything.
And I was also going to edit it. And I'm always extremely excited about editing something until it's time to, oh, I don't know, edit something. And I found that when I would sit down to start working, the amount of work and unknown that I had ahead of me, and unknown is a really big thing for me, anxiety-wise, my hands would start shaking, and I would start to get a little sick. I noticed that I was saying, "Ow" out loud. Even though it's just anxiety, the waves were so strong it felt like physical pain. And I had to push. That's one of my first steps in anxiety, is flight.
Nikki Kinzer:
Right, yeah.
Tommy Metz III:
Which is not... But it just feels too... I always call it "too hot." It feels too hot to touch, if you want to mix all of our metaphors. And so, I had to walk away. And if we had to really boil down my anxiety to one thing, it is anticipation.
Pete Wright:
Well, talk more about that. I don't-
Tommy Metz III:
Sure. It's once I'm... Let's compare it to theater. Once I'm on stage, I'm fine. Once I'm actually doing the thing, I will usually lose myself in the work. And my confidence raises up, and I just start enjoying it. Leading up to that is really difficult for me; actually sitting down and taking that first step. Because that first step is going to lead to the second step, which will lead to a scary step. And then ultimately, I'm not going to be able to do it, and then everyone will not like me anymore. That's the chutes and ladders of where it's all going to go, is I'm going to let people down. Everyone that worked really hard, it's going to be on my shoulders. I'm going to blow it. And so, that keeps me from taking step one because I'm kind of worried about step 10, in effect.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. That makes yeah.
Pete Wright:
Nikki, how...I don't know. Tom, last night, told me something that I thought was really interesting. He said... What did you say? "ADHD sounds cool. I wonder if I could get some." Something like that?
Tommy Metz III:
Yeah, it sounds really neat.
Pete Wright:
It sounds really neat. Tom does not have ADHD, but I listen to him talk about it this way. And I think, wow, I feel like that that's the call and response to ADHD emotional distress, if I've ever heard it. That is exactly the feeling that I get when I feel like I'm letting someone else down and going into that absolute rejection-sensitivity stage.
Nikki Kinzer:
Well, it's why ADHD and anxiety, they live together. And depression comes in too.
Pete Wright:
Terrible roommates.
Nikki Kinzer:
Right?
Pete Wright:
Oh, yeah.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah so-
Tommy Metz III:
Yeah-
Nikki Kinzer:
... you also have-
Tommy Metz III:
... three's company style.
Nikki Kinzer:
... this depression.
Pete Wright:
He lives under your bed.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah, yeah. But that's-
Tommy Metz III:
Weird. He has his own bed, but he's always under yours.
Nikki Kinzer:
But he's aways under yours, yeah. But I think that's why you see those three so connected, is because one can affect the other. And it's also why a lot of people don't get diagnosed with ADHD; they get diagnosed with anxiety and depression first. Because sometimes doctors will think that it's, "Let's see if this helps if we treat this." But if they miss the ADHD, when they do have ADHD, treating depression, anxiety doesn't really help the ADHD. So the ADHD still gets... it's still out of control. So it's just a huge mess. But yeah, that's [inaudible 00:10:54]
Pete Wright:
Is what's interesting because then, when you look at the meds... I never take them, so I keep them on my desk, which makes me seem really... It's not good to just have drugs all over my office. But I do anyway. But what's interesting about is-
Tommy Metz III:
I see you've made a candy necklace of medication.
Nikki Kinzer:
Of what I need to take today? Yeah.
Pete Wright:
All right. If-
Nikki Kinzer:
It's actually a really good idea.
Pete Wright:
... we're going to get serious about it, I'll just do the whole... If you're on video, you can see the whole panoply of-
Tommy Metz III:
Yeah. The little journey.
Pete Wright:
"Oh. No, lost one.: We've got one [inaudible 00:11:25] Here's the thing that I find so interesting is that, in my experience, if I'm treating the anxiety and depression part, then the ADHD stuff is still there; I just feel more muted about it. So I might feel better, but it's not making me finish stuff that I'm doing. It's not making me move forward. I just feel-
Nikki Kinzer:
Doesn't help-
Pete Wright:
... sort of-
Nikki Kinzer:
... you get started.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, it certainly doesn't help me get started. It just mutes the highs and lows. And I don't feel such severe troughs of anxiety and depression that I might have otherwise had. I don't feel like I have to carry a paper bag around in the car because of a sudden-onset panic attack. But I don't feel any closer to getting out of the scenario that got me there in the first place. Does that resonate?
Nikki Kinzer:
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Because if you think about ADHD medication, the stimulants anyway, the ones that are stimulants, are the ones that are helping you increase that dopamine that you need to get started on something and to focus on something. And antidepressant, and I'm not a doctor, so this is just off of the cuff of personal experience and coaching clients that talk about this, but that's the missing gap, is that you can take an antidepressant, but it doesn't help you get started on something that you need to do that you've been avoiding or that's hard or has too many steps. So yeah, there's missing pieces to it for sure.
Tommy Metz III:
And I am a doctor. And one of the things that I've learned is-
Pete Wright:
Tom is not a doctor.
Tommy Metz III:
... one of the things that I have to be... It was a little disclaimer?
Pete Wright:
Yes.
Tommy Metz III:
"No one should ever listen to Tom." One of the things that I really have to stay very aware of, that I've learned, but I've learned the hard way, is that I can get very... I don't mean to use this term lightly, but I think it really does apply. I get very addicted to that really quick rush of relief when I say, "Today is not the day."
Pete Wright:
Yes.
Tommy Metz III:
I'm going to do it. And I'm going to do it tomorrow. And tomorrow's going to be the day. And I get this real rush of boom. What I have to remember is that rush goes away. Now that I think I'm just too old to fool myself, it goes away in about 48 seconds. And then the slow creep of mounting anxiety, knowing that tomorrow's coming... Because I'm compounding. I'm making it worse. Every time I push, I make it worse.
And I have to spend enough time in that uncomfortable feeling to remember this is not worth it. And I know, for myself, I know what I finally needed, really, to get past the hump for editing. Are we going chronologically? Do you want me to just tell you what it is for me?
Pete Wright:
I'd love to hear it.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
I'd love to hear it. But I just want to level, I just want to amplify that compounding. You use the word "compounding." And that hits so home for me. And as I think you know, one of my favorite quotes from one of my favorite movies of all time comes from David Mamet in the movie The Spanish Prisoner. And one of the great characters in that movie says, "Worry is interest paid on a debt that never comes due." And I live by that because it reminds me that compounding interest is great in finance, when you're earning it. But when you're just paying it out for fear, uncertainty, and doubt, then it serves no one. And the work that I feel like I'm doing is constantly trying to get out from under that experience of feeling this thing that serves no one.
Nikki Kinzer:
I just want to add to that because that's a focused-forward thought. You're thinking, the worry isn't helping me. But I also want to say to folks out there that are thinking so much about their past, that that also doesn't serve you.
Pete Wright:
Right. Right. It can manifest into any place of time. I can sit there all day long and think about how much better I was at something when I was in college. That's a real popular refrain in Pete's head.
Nikki Kinzer:
Well, and with ADHD, it's not being better. It's, "I can remember all the times I failed doing this."
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Yeah, it's either, I remember when I failed then-
Nikki Kinzer:
Or I-
Pete Wright:
Or-
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
... I remember that just now I'm failing, immediately.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah, yeah.
Pete Wright:
So, yeah.
Nikki Kinzer:
Tommy-
Pete Wright:
Go ahead.
Nikki Kinzer:
... it's yours.
Pete Wright:
Tom.
Nikki Kinzer:
Tell us about editing, please.
Tommy Metz III:
Well really, editing is the second time you tell a story, bluh, bluh, bluh. No. What I wanted to say is because, to use your word "cannonball" with the anxiety storm, I also start to get very frustrated because rationally I know, once I start, it will be fine. I have never not finished something. It will be fine. But then that smacking against the, no it's too hot to touch. And I start to get really upset with myself. And then that doesn't help. And vodka. And then...
Pete Wright:
Numbing tools. We've talked about that too.
Tommy Metz III:
Numbing tools. But what I needed, I needed two things, it turned out, to get started. And once I started, I never looked back.
Pete Wright:
What were those things?
Tommy Metz III:
I loved the editing process. Number one was there was a... Well, I guess the only word for it is "accountability." I reached out to a friend who was also an editor. And I said, "I don't want you to come edit my movie. I want you to come over to my apartment for half an hour and sit and watch me edit this one scene." And I picked a very easy scene; something just to really put, this is going to go here, this is going to go here. Because it forced me to not... I wasn't going to invite him all the way down from Porter Ranch, and then walk away. That was what I needed. He's really nice. It was comforting to have someone there. I could say, "How does this look?" which is, in a way, "Do I remember how to edit?"
And then the other thing which took the edge off, which it took me a long time to learn because I think I had a pretty big stigma against it, was I also took... We talk about medication, right? You already brought up medication.
Pete Wright:
Mm-hmm.
Tommy Metz III:
I did take a Klonopin to take the edge off. Because Klonopin, there's no recreational use for me. It doesn't get me high, sleepy, anything like that. It just quiets everything enough. So those two things, a little bit of medicinal help and then someone here. And he watched me edit for half an hour, and then I was, "Ohm right. I enjoy doing this. I forgot." And he left, and I edited for another two hours.
Nikki Kinzer:
That's great.
Tommy Metz III:
And now the film has gotten into two film festivals so far.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yay.
Tommy Metz III:
So clearly, it worked out.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yay. Yeah.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. We call those "accountability buddies," but mostly "productivity pals." PPs. Those who [inaudible 00:18:13].
Tommy Metz III:
Oh.
Nikki Kinzer:
PPs.
Tommy Metz III:
Sure.
Pete Wright:
You have a PP.
Nikki Kinzer:
You had a PP.
Pete Wright:
A productivity pal. Yeah.
Tommy Metz III:
I'm not going to join you on-
Pete Wright:
Yeah-
Tommy Metz III:
... this...
Pete Wright:
... you do.
Tommy Metz III:
... moniker.
Pete Wright:
You know what? You know what? It's a gift. Right now, you're going to be all holier than thou and cool and say, "I'm not going to join this."
Tommy Metz III:
It's true.
Pete Wright:
But as soon as we hang up, you're going to think, who's my PP for the day? And it's-
Tommy Metz III:
Who's my PP-
Pete Wright:
... never going-
Tommy Metz III:
... for the day?
Pete Wright:
It's never going to let you go. That's-
Nikki Kinzer:
It's true.
Tommy Metz III:
Good point.
Pete Wright:
That's the truth.
Tommy Metz III:
And legitimately, Foster is my PP.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, [inaudible 00:18:34].
Tommy Metz III:
I love Foster.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yes.
Tommy Metz III:
He is. Look at him. Look at him.
Nikki Kinzer:
He's working really hard behind you. Yeah.
Tommy Metz III:
He is, he is.
Pete Wright:
A little bit of a sociopath, Foster.
Tommy Metz III:
He also gets Klonopin every morning. Yeah, so... That's what I need. I need someone to sit down with me, just for the beginning. Because I know, once I get into it. If that helps at all.
Pete Wright:
Sure. Let's transition a little bit to some of our experiences talking about anxiety. And I have bridged this show and WTS before. I had a complete meltdown about one of the episodes that we did. It's the first of our lost episodes of season seven, when I did this episode, and it ended up being just terrible and sad and horrible. And I came and did a part of our member-
Tommy Metz III:
It wasn't terrible or horrible. It was just a different podcast.
Pete Wright:
The sad, terrible, horrible podcast. And so, I came back here and talked to Nikki about it and realized, oh my God, my anxiety is actually the experience of talking about it. And so, we came back and redid that segment with me talking about the experience of talking about it. It was the stow-away story, which will be coming out this season. And that is something that I land on because of what I like to think of as the contagiousness of anxiety. You both have said to me things that illuminate that we live in the same space around this particular issue.
For me, it is remarkable to me how primed I am to receive anxieties. That someone can tell me something that they're anxious about or gift it to me, and it takes me zero time at all to internalize that thing and not let it go. To create that perseverative thought spiral and just really get to the point where I'm shaking and can't let it go.
And now, it is forever attributed to this. And in this specific example, it was the story of kids and people who are escaping very horrible, horrible things. And they do so by climbing up the wheels and hiding in the wheel wells of airplanes while they fly long distances. And many of them die. And I did this episode with Tom, and it was a train wreck because, by the end, all I could think about was sad stuff. And we are never releasing that version of it.
Then I came and talked to Nikki. And Nikki, you said the same thing; that you have to turn off news because it's so easy for you to personalize other people's fears and anxiety. Talk about that.
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh, it just happened the other day. My daughter was talking about a friend of hers and some things that happened to her when she was younger, some abuse stuff. And I could tell she was going to start to explain what happened. And I said, "No, no, no, no. I can't. No, don't even tell me. I don't want to know. I'm really sorry, but I don't need to know the specifics because it's too much." It's too much. Because I either put myself in that position, like it happened to me, or I look at it and I see it happening to my daughter. And that's worse. I just can't deal with it.
And it happens all the time, actually, Pete. Because I don't remember what my husband said today, but he started to tell me about a story. Oh, I know what it was. And it's so random. I drink out of this cup. I have water in this cup every day. This is what I fill up, right?
Pete Wright:
Mm-hmm.
Nikki Kinzer:
And it's a metal straw. And I did it this morning. And Brad said, "Oh, well, make sure you don't fall when you're drinking the water. Because did you hear about that little boy?" And I'm, "I don't need to know anything else."
Pete Wright:
Oh God.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah.
Tommy Metz III:
"Did you hear about that little boy?"
Nikki Kinzer:
That little boy.
Tommy Metz III:
Full stop.
Nikki Kinzer:
With a metal straw.
Tommy Metz III:
I don't know what that is, but I can-
Nikki Kinzer:
I don't know.
Pete Wright:
It's already there.
Nikki Kinzer:
I don't know the rest of the story, Tommy, because I didn't ask. I just know it's bad. So, I do it all the time where I have to have stop people because it's just too much. And then... Yeah, it's just awful. I think of it happening, and oh...
Pete Wright:
Well, and this is the thing. I started doing a little bit of research on this. And it's funny. There's a spectrum, but generally the therapeutic community says, "Yeah, if you live with anxiety, it's pretty easy for you to internalize other anxieties that come along. If you spend too much time thinking about it, you'll spend too much time thinking about it." And that is a terrifying thing. Then you get the other side of those articles, which say, "Yes, you absolutely can give anxieties to other people. Here's how to protect your brain." And it's just clickbait. And really, it's written by the Harvard Business Review. And what business do they have talking about the neurological aspects of anxiety?
And so, that is the thing: making light of this thing that we do live with when we live with anxiety. This little boy straw story is... I don't even care what the real story is. I'm not going to sleep as well tonight, now that I have that somewhere in my head. And it's just the reality. It's around every corner. It could be anything that I could see that could just trigger it. So, I don't know. Tom, I've been talking too much. Do you have this?
Tommy Metz III:
I have... Maybe not as a raw nerve as both of you are. But I definitely live in a world of I'm afraid of things that I can't, I call it "unsee," but can't un-think. So, I'm very susceptible to anything about animals being hurt, anything about children being hurt. That digs in. And then I... Should I? No, that's dumb. Yeah, I'll do it. And then I have this weird, we've talked about it on WTS, but I have weird moments. I watch horror movies all the time, so it's not like I'm a precious little person. But I have weird moments of over-empathy. And what I'm talking about is trash dog. That I walked by a dumpster, and there was a dog stuffed animal sticking out. And maybe it's because of the movies Toy Story. I don't know. But either way, he lives with me now. That was years ago.
Because I walked by, and I was, "Am I going to be thinking about him when I try to go to sleep? Because I feel sad that he somehow..." I guess I'm anthropomorphizing him.
Pete Wright:
You're doing great.
Tommy Metz III:
And I was, "I'm going to. Now that I've said, 'Am I going to think about it?' I'm going to think about it." And I went back, and I put him in the washing machine. And now trash dog lives with me.
Nikki Kinzer:
I love that. I love that.
Tommy Metz III:
But that way also lies madness. I could be, "That mop looks lonely." And then I have nine mops in my apartment.
Pete Wright:
But see, I really struggle with this. And I'm pretty sure we talked about this. I have a thing about worms. And I know that I'm not alone with the worm thing. After a little bit of rain, I see a worm on the sidewalk that feels like, oh, it's kind of washed up, and it needs to go... I pick up the worm and I go [inaudible 00:25:35] But I live-
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh see, I have the opposite reaction.
Pete Wright:
Oh no, I live in stupid Portland. And when it rains-
Nikki Kinzer:
The worm doesn't-
Pete Wright:
... which it rains a lot.
Nikki Kinzer:
... live in my mind.
Pete Wright:
Oh God, the worm lives in my mind. Because there's something about my identity as a quote, "good person" that saves lives. And worms are the manifestation of that. But I walk down our little path in Portland, to walk the dog. And after a good rain, it will be littered with thousands of worms on our mile and a half route. And-
Nikki Kinzer:
That's my worst nightmare.
Pete Wright:
... it is so overwhelming to me. I sit with that for days. I could sit with that for days about all the worms that I couldn't save. Is that-
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh, I'm so sorry.
Pete Wright:
Right? That's why I do an ADHD and an anxiety show. Because I'll never save all the worms even if I tried, but I do feel bad about it. Yeah. It's amazing. So Tom, now we've been doing this show for a long time now. Do you have any favorite anxieties that we've talked about that you would like to illuminate?
Tommy Metz III:
You mean that people have sent or anything-
Pete Wright:
Anything.
Tommy Metz III:
... we've talked about?
Pete Wright:
Anything. Oh, I have a long list.
Tommy Metz III:
Do you?
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Tommy Metz III:
Right off the bat, it's my least favorite thing in the entire world. And the only reason I bring it up, because I've talked about an ad nauseum, is that I have made no progress in getting rid of it. Because it's an anxiety, but it has crossed the genre into phobia. Is my phobia of ants. I have a deep fear of ants. And I know now what I do. Someone was able to point out to me, because I just recently went camping and there was a whole ant problem at one point, is-
Pete Wright:
It that ants live in the wild, and you found them there, and you were insulted?
Tommy Metz III:
That I moved into their house, and I was, "Oh." Yeah, I have these physical manifestations that I don't know that I'm doing. And the psychosomatic of it lasts for an hour or something. So yeah, it's my least favorite favorite because it's fascinating to me that I've made no progress in 46 years about becoming less afraid of ants.
Nikki Kinzer:
What's interesting to me about that is that I feel sorry for you, Tommy. And I'll tell you why.
Tommy Metz III:
Oh, yeah.
Pete Wright:
Because Nikki sleeps in a bed of ants every night, and-
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh God, no.
Pete Wright:
... it's so comfortable.
Nikki Kinzer:
No. No, no, no, no.
Pete Wright:
Sorry, Tom.
Tommy Metz III:
Magic fingers.
Nikki Kinzer:
But I understand the phobia because I have that around snakes. And I think about ants, why I feel bad for you is that ants are things that you could potentially see every day, anywhere you are. They could be anywhere-
Tommy Metz III:
Oh, I see. Versus-
Nikki Kinzer:
... Tommy.
Tommy Metz III:
... snakes. If you're seeing snakes every day, move.
Nikki Kinzer:
And everywhere. At least mine is a little bit more controlled. Granted, we have little gardener snakes sometimes, and I freak out. But even that I don't see very often. You know what I mean? So yeah, I feel bad. Because that's something that you just could easily run into. And my phobia and anxiety, it would be pretty hard to just always run into it. So anyway, I'm just giving you some empathy.
Tommy Metz III:
I appreciate it. And also, ,snakes are kind of cool to be afraid of.
Nikki Kinzer:
I don't know if cool.
Tommy Metz III:
Snakes, spiders are more of a traditional "Sure, I get it." Ants, I have yet to run into someone else that is, "Oh yeah, ants. I have to move. I have to brush off my legs. And then I'm itching [inaudible 00:29:10] for the next 20 minutes." Yeah. I have never met any... Oh, I've never said that out loud. I've never met another person. Does that make me a special flower or the loneliest boy in the world?
Nikki Kinzer:
You're a special flower.
Tommy Metz III:
I don't know.
Nikki Kinzer:
You're a special flower.
Tommy Metz III:
Yeah, thank you. We'll go with special flower. Yeah.
Pete Wright:
We've-
Tommy Metz III:
What about you, Pete?
Pete Wright:
Well, we've talked about... Just on the theme of creepy crawlies, we've talked about lice. That was actually a listener submission somebody wrote in, and that was a horrifying, horrifying conversation. But the ones that I think are some of my favorites are the ones that deal with social anxieties and the way we interact with one another and the things that people are afraid of. Things that I'm okay with now, like heart emojis. Somebody wrote in and told us that they were terrified of how they interacted with their boss because they sent a heart emoji that was purple. And they read, only after the fact, that a purple heart meant that either you wanted a raise and you were greedy or you were very, very horny. And they ended up totally perseverating on this point. They couldn't let it go that they'd sent that to their boss. And so-
Nikki Kinzer:
I had no idea there was such a thing of-
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Nikki Kinzer:
... color [inaudible 00:30:18].
Pete Wright:
There is a meaning behind-
Nikki Kinzer:
... hearts meaning something.
Pete Wright:
... the color. Yeah. It also has-
Tommy Metz III:
We went through a whole list.
Pete Wright:
Oh, there's a huge list. Yeah.
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh-
Pete Wright:
Because microcultures-
Nikki Kinzer:
I'll have to listen to that show.
Pete Wright:
... and communities.
Nikki Kinzer:
We'll have to put that in the show notes because that's very interesting.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. It is fascinating. And so, there are these micro communities that come up around emoji use. The purple one has also been co-opted; I think it was... Who was it, Tom? Was it BTS, the K-pop-
Tommy Metz III:
BTS.
Pete Wright:
... band? And-
Tommy Metz III:
Correct.
Pete Wright:
... so now, the purple heart can also mean you're a fan of Korean boy band music. So, it's really interesting there. There was one that we did... Well, there are a couple around how I am incapable of talking to people in public. We did one on, I think, it was networking. The networking episode where-
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah, I can-
Pete Wright:
... that was-
Nikki Kinzer:
... relate to that.
Pete Wright:
It was horrible. And you of helped me create a little discover my inner alpha networker. And it was a disquieting conversation. And then there was one where I was going on and on and on about how I don't know what to say when there's uncomfortable small talk at a Starbucks drive-through. "How are you?"
I don't know what to say because my first instinct is, "I'm still alive, thank God." Or, "We're not living in the post-apocalyptic dystopian future of Mad Max. How are you?" And Tom says to me, "Why don't you just say, "I'm good. How are you" in response? And that was a shock to me. He just made it so easy. And then, at some point, he called me Happy Mcdoodle Pants, and that sort of stuck.
Tommy Metz III:
It checks out.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, yeah. That stuck. We've talked a lot about online dating and Reply All emails that I think was a real treat. Learning about people's real anxiety around Reply All. And the rage that comes up, that is not insignificant, when you get a Reply All email chain that won't stop. It is equivalent to road rage. It just comes out of nowhere, and you get furious. And what does that mean for who you are? But to the point about the kid and the straw, we had one on baraphobia, the fear of falling down. And it was around running up concrete stairs as a jogger, as an athlete. And that's a real thing: fearing for your teeth, fearing for all the things that could happen when you fall down on your face-
Nikki Kinzer:
So-
Pete Wright:
... and it was horrible.
Nikki Kinzer:
... is that also...? Because one of the reasons why I'm afraid of heights is that I'm afraid that, for some reason, I'm going to have this urge to just jump.
Pete Wright:
That's actually... It's-
Tommy Metz III:
We've talked about that.
Pete Wright:
We have talked about that one.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Nikki Kinzer:
I get so worried about... Even in the hotel, if you're in a hotel and there's a balcony, there's this fear that I'm just, all of a sudden, going to decide to fall. I don't know.
Pete Wright:
So-
Nikki Kinzer:
What is that all about?
Pete Wright:
We talked about that. I think that was back in our first season. It was-
Tommy Metz III:
First season.
Pete Wright:
Because that's a legit thing. And it turns out there is a percentage of the population that absolutely feels that, when they run into a high place, that there is going to be the urge of, what if I jump off? What if-
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah. Like, what's going-
Pete Wright:
... I just-
Nikki Kinzer:
... to happen?
Pete Wright:
Yeah. What's going to happen?
Nikki Kinzer:
What am I going to land on? I did that when I was-
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Will I-
Nikki Kinzer:
... in Hawaii.
Pete Wright:
... land on a car? Will I bounce?
Nikki Kinzer:
So, if I fell for some reason, this is where I would fall. I wonder if I would die. It's a crazy thought process, and it happens so fast.
Tommy Metz III:
I think we found out in our research, part of it comes down to a perverse version of control. That if part of you is afraid of falling, that one way to get away from that feeling of, what if I fall? I'm going to make the decision.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Not to fall.
Tommy Metz III:
"I'm going to fall." The idea of, if you're on a tough ledge and you're having trouble, just that one control option is letting go.
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh.
Tommy Metz III:
It's a terrible option.
Nikki Kinzer:
Right.
Tommy Metz III:
Yeah, that's one of the things.
Nikki Kinzer:
That's so interesting. Wow.
Pete Wright:
It is. And I think that's exactly it. But this is one of the examples. This is the reason. I'm always asked, "Why do you continue to do this show? Because aren't you just inheriting all these fears?" But I absolutely live with that "what if" question. And as soon as we did that episode, I'm not going to say it went away. It didn't go away. But now that I've put words to why it's happening, it does not carry any of the emotional weight that it used to. It didn't carry the fear. That feeling is still there. The "what if" feeling. But there is no fear anymore of that I'm actually going to do it. Because as Tom said, the answer is control. I am in control. And I have agency in the decision. And the fact that 30, I think 35% of the population lives with this, it's a genetic thing. It's a thing. You know how some people hate broccoli? The taste of broccoli is terrible. Isn't that the thing? Or cilantro. You eat cilantro-
Nikki Kinzer:
Cilantro.
Tommy Metz III:
Cilantro.
Nikki Kinzer:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Right. It's like that. There's a percentage that has this genetic thing, this trigger around heights. And that once you have words to describe it, for me at least, it deflated the anxiety around it. So, that's why I feel like we keep talking about these things. Because it helps to talk about these things. It helps to figure out what other people are saying about these things. And then we talk about shows like High School Reunion. We did a whole episode on High School Reunion. Somebody sent it in.
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh, I avoid those.
Pete Wright:
That was a delight. Yeah. I think that was ultimately our advice is, "Yeah, don't go to your high school reunion."
Nikki Kinzer:
I just avoid it. Never been to one.
Pete Wright:
I mentioned earlier that season seven is coming-
Nikki Kinzer:
Season seven.
Pete Wright:
... this week, yeah.
Nikki Kinzer:
Congratulations, you guys.
Tommy Metz III:
Right?
Pete Wright:
Yeah, we have a trailer coming up.
Nikki Kinzer:
So, how many-
Pete Wright:
It's super fun.
Nikki Kinzer:
... years is this then? Did you start in 2019? I can't remember.
Pete Wright:
No. We had started-
Nikki Kinzer:
Started earlier?
Pete Wright:
When we talked in 2019, we were going into season three.
Nikki Kinzer:
Oh.
Pete Wright:
That's-
Nikki Kinzer:
Okay, gosh.
Pete Wright:
And so-
Nikki Kinzer:
We waited way too long to have you guys on. We should have had you on season one, season three, and season seven.
Pete Wright:
But the problem is, Nikki, I was terrified of anybody finding out we were doing this podcast. I thought it would make us seem like weirdos. So it took three seasons to actually-
Nikki Kinzer:
To feel confident about talking it? About your anxiety podcast. That totally makes-
Pete Wright:
Exactly.
Nikki Kinzer:
You know, that's perfect. I love it.
Pete Wright:
We have a couple of episodes in the can already. Tom, is there anything you're really excited about previewing? Do you even remember what we've recorded already? I'm not sure that you do, based on that silence.
Tommy Metz III:
I really like a nice tabula rasa as soon as the podcast is out, I just power down. No, it's really, every season, of course it's a podcast about anxiety, is: are we going to have enough to talk about? Is this still going to work? And there's always a little bit of, again, anticipation anxiety for when we start. And it started off gangbusters. It felt exactly like old times. And it's always such a wonderful experience.
Pete Wright:
Our first episode, we've got a COVID anxiety update from Tom. And I bring to the table anxiety about face mites. So-
Tommy Metz III:
Right.
Nikki Kinzer:
Pete.
Pete Wright:
I might include a little preview if you are interested in little bit of episode one that is on the way for next season of What's That Smell. Anything else that I've missed? Nikki, do you have anything you want to talk about?
Nikki Kinzer:
No, this is great. I'm so glad that you guys are here. And Tommy, you made it here as a guest. Love it.
Tommy Metz III:
I did.
Nikki Kinzer:
We'll have to have you come back because this is great.
Pete Wright:
We'll see you in five years.
Nikki Kinzer:
I love talking about anxiety and having laughter around it. It just makes it feel lighter. So, I appreciate what you guys do.
Tommy Metz III:
Hopefully yeah, that's the What's That Smell promise-
Nikki Kinzer:
That's right.
Tommy Metz III:
... for the most part. That and stow aways. Hooray!
Pete Wright:
[inaudible 00:38:13] talking about that a lot.
Nikki Kinzer:
And now you're going to talk about little boys and metal straws. So-
Pete Wright:
Oh God, I can't. Ah, goodness.
Nikki Kinzer:
So much to talk about, Tommy. You are not going to run out of topics.
Tommy Metz III:
No. Exactly.
Pete Wright:
So Tom, we've pitched Static. That's the name of your film. But nobody can see it yet because it's still going into the festivals, right? Like-
Tommy Metz III:
Festivals, correct.
Pete Wright:
[inaudible 00:38:37] We're not telling anybody yet. But what are the first two festivals? One in Los Angeles. One in Chicago or something?
Tommy Metz III:
Correct. We're in Screamfest LA, which is the longest-running horror film festival in America. And then we just, just got into the Atlanta Horror Film Festival. Both of those are going to be in October. And we're just waiting to hear back from others. But so far, we're two for two, which is very thrilling.
Nikki Kinzer:
That's awesome. Congratulation.s.
Pete Wright:
Well, if you're in Atlanta or Los Angeles, look for those festivals. Go see Tom's new film. And of course, Melissa already posted the link to 30 Nights' website: 30nightsmovie.com. If you haven't seen it yet, it's super fun. And so, that's that. Thank you, Thomas, as always. Appreciate you.
Tommy Metz III:
An absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.
Pete Wright:
All right. Thank you everybody for downloading and listening to this show. Thank you all for your time and your attention. Don't forget, if you have something to contribute on this conversation, we're going to head over to the show talk channel, which is in our Discord server. And you can join us right there by becoming a supporting member at the deluxe level or better. On behalf of Tommy Metz and Nikki Kinzer, I'm Pete Wright. And we'll see you right back here next week on Taking Control: The ADHD Podcast. Tom, how do you feel about your face?
Tommy Metz III:
Ugh. I feel like this isn't the first time you've asked me this. In what way, Pete? Aesthetically? Functionally? I've had face problems before.
Pete Wright:
Related to your pores. How do you feel about your pores?
Tommy Metz III:
Well, we have-
Pete Wright:
Do you think your pore game is on lock?
Tommy Metz III:
It's very pretty good now. Very pretty good now. But for at one point, and I believe we have talked about this, I had cystic acne and had to take carpet bombs of Accutane, which was incredibly horrible.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Tommy Metz III:
That was back-
Pete Wright:
No, it was not good. I'm also a friend of the 'tane.
Tommy Metz III:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
Friend of the 'tane.
Tommy Metz III:
Pumped a lot of 'tane down in New Orleans?
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Tommy Metz III:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
So much 'tane. What I'm worried about is I want to... Oh, here it is. Yeah. I'm going to share that. I just want you to look at this. I'm going to need you to describe what you're seeing.
Tommy Metz III:
I have never not wanted to open something in my life. Is it going to be gross?
Pete Wright:
No. No. It's just a close-up of skin. That's all. I'll just tell you up front.
Tommy Metz III:
Clicking now?
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Tommy Metz III:
Ew. But yeah, it's not gross, but I don't like it.
Pete Wright:
It's skin.
Tommy Metz III:
Yeah, it's very close. And little hairs.
Pete Wright:
Skin. Don't leave.
Tommy Metz III:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
Whatever you do, don't leave the screen share because this is important setup.
Tommy Metz III:
Okay.
Pete Wright:
So then, if I move a little bit forward, do you see what's going on right there?
Tommy Metz III:
Someone is putting some sort of swab onto a microphone slide. That's not what that's called. Microscope slide.
Pete Wright:
You're exactly right. The substance, it is actually a kind of glue that they are putting on a glass slide that is eventually going to end up in a microscope. And then they're... What are they doing here?
Tommy Metz III:
There's a very pleasant, young woman. And they seem to be putting the glued up thing on her forehead. I'm already starting to get a little nervous. Okay, then they're peeling it off. Oh, it made a little face. There's a residue on the slide, and it made a little face. And-
Pete Wright:
It's like a smiley face. Isn't that cute?
Tommy Metz III:
It is kind of like-
Pete Wright:
Now, what do you imagine that comes up in that slide? The smiley face of residue that is now on the microscope slide?
Tommy Metz III:
Maybe a little bit of grease and dead skin cells or something maybe. Yeah. I think those that's it. Oh, we got... Oh, ah! What?
Pete Wright:
We got lips. Oh, there we are. There we are.
Tommy Metz III:
Wait, is-
Pete Wright:
Now, we're actually-
Tommy Metz III:
... this of the slide?
Pete Wright:
Now we're going in tight to-
Tommy Metz III:
To-
Pete Wright:
... the skin.
Tommy Metz III:
... a person or the slide?
Pete Wright:
This is the [inaudible 00:42:33] skin.
Tommy Metz III:
Why would you go so fast?
Pete Wright:
What is that? What is that?
Tommy Metz III:
It's a little-
Pete Wright:
That's a moving thing.
Tommy Metz III:
It's a moving-
Pete Wright:
It's a moving-
Tommy Metz III:
... thing.
Pete Wright:
It's a critter. Yeah.
Tommy Metz III:
It looks like a cell. But it looks like it's a cell that's on the end of a tree branch. This is skin still?
Pete Wright:
It is a face mite.
Tommy Metz III:
Oh, come on. A face mite?
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Demodex folliculorum. Demodex folliculorum.
Tommy Metz III:
Oh, thanks Mario.
Pete Wright:
This is a face mite, and this lives-
Tommy Metz III:
Face mite.
Pete Wright:
... on your face. And this is the thing that bugs me. My wife says-
Tommy Metz III:
Literally.
Pete Wright:
... to me, without comment... That was pretty good. If you missed it, I don't want to go back, but I'll just say, I said, "It bugs me." And Tom said-
Tommy Metz III:
He did go back.
Pete Wright:
... "Literally" under his breath. And I just want that out there that it was pretty good.
Tommy Metz III:
You're welcome, comrade.
Pete Wright:
These creatures live on your face. And they are, actually Tom, they're arachnids. They're related to-
Tommy Metz III:
Face spiders.
Pete Wright:
... spiders, ticks. Yeah. They live in your face. They live in your face.
Tommy Metz III:
Why? What do they do? Are they protecting me?
Pete Wright:
Here's the thing that's confusing about face mites, is that, you say that they are... Why would we want these things living on our face?
Tommy Metz III:
You're right.
Pete Wright:
They all live on our face. They're in there. But they are not parasites. They don't actually cause any harm. They're considered commensalist relationships with their human hosts rather than parasites or parasitic relationships.
Tommy Metz III:
"Commensalist," is that like parallel play? They're just doing their thing, and they happen to be on my forehead?
Pete Wright:
Yeah, it's like symbiotic, right? It's-
Tommy Metz III:
Got it.
Pete Wright:
... that members of one species gain benefits while those of the other species gain no benefits nor harm. Right? So-
Tommy Metz III:
So, we're not getting anything from this. Okay.
Pete Wright:
We're not getting anything from the face mites. But the face mites actually live in our pores. And they eat and digest the sebum that live in our follicles. Sebum is not alive. It's like an oil that they eat and digest. And-
Tommy Metz III:
So, they're like living Clearasil.
Pete Wright:
... then... Clearasil.
Tommy Metz III:
Clearasil with a face.
Pete Wright:
That's right. Except for, if you have a breakout, if they get out of control, if their population gets out of control, you'll get a red rash on your face. If you get a red rash on your face, those are the face mites, demodex folliculorum.
Tommy Metz III:
Could that be where rosacea comes from? Because I had rosacea once.
Pete Wright:
I don't-
Tommy Metz III:
We don't know.
Pete Wright:
... actually-
Tommy Metz III:
We'll never know.
Pete Wright:
... know the answer to that question. But I do know that they live face down inside your hair follicles. And they nestle up against the shaft-
Tommy Metz III:
Now you're talking.
Pete Wright:
... of the hair, where you can't actually see them. And they are creepy, creepy crawlies.
Tommy Metz III:
I don't like them.
Pete Wright:
And so-
Tommy Metz III:
Ew.
Pete Wright:
Let's see. I'm going to scrub forward just a little bit. Oh-
Tommy Metz III:
Oh, no.
Pete Wright:
... friendly person looking at them.
Tommy Metz III:
Oh, that's that same lady.
Pete Wright:
Here they are.
Tommy Metz III:
Slide forehead lady turns out to be the doctor.
Pete Wright:
There we go.
Tommy Metz III:
The doctor was a woman the whole time.
Pete Wright:
So, you can see-
Tommy Metz III:
What a riddle.
Pete Wright:
... the main body of these things has the legs. It has the eight legs. And then it has this long tail right on the back. On the back end of it. And that's how they align themselves against-
Tommy Metz III:
Oh, you really go-
Pete Wright:
... the hair.
Tommy Metz III:
... in quick. Oh, look at a little-
Pete Wright:
And here-
Tommy Metz III:
Agh.
Pete Wright:
... there're related to ticks-
Tommy Metz III:
All right.
Pete Wright:
... and spiders-
Tommy Metz III:
Now there's spiders on the screen.
Pete Wright:
... and eyeballs.
Tommy Metz III:
Okay, what? [inaudible 00:45:57] eyeballs.
Pete Wright:
Now this is where I really wanted to make sure. How do you get these? Go ahead and ask me. "Hey Pete, how do you get face mites on your face?"
Tommy Metz III:
Hey Pete, what are the chances you're going to stop saying the word "face mite?" Was that the wrong question? Hey Pete, how do you get these face mites on your face?
Pete Wright:
What are you seeing right now?
Tommy Metz III:
Baby. A mother is kissing-
Pete Wright:
Babies.
Tommy Metz III:
... a baby. Wait, it comes from babies?
Pete Wright:
Uh-uh. No-
Tommy Metz III:
Oh.
Pete Wright:
... I wish... God. Like so many things, Tom, I wish we could blame the babies. No, we get them. We pass them on to our children by rubbing our faces onto babies. And then they live on the baby forever.
Tommy Metz III:
But rubbing faces on babies is one of the top three things to do.
Pete Wright:
Face mites, Tom.
Tommy Metz III:
Oh, no.
Pete Wright:
Face mites. Hugging. Rubbing your face against another face. Anytime-
Tommy Metz III:
Oh no.
Pete Wright:
... faces get rubbed, you're going to be passing on face mites to other people. That-
Tommy Metz III:
So, Eskimo kissing-
Pete Wright:
... is the curse of the face mites-
Tommy Metz III:
... is-
Pete Wright:
Oh God. It's all face mite action up and down.
Tommy Metz III:
Eskimo kissing is just a highway of bugs.
Pete Wright:
I feel like the face mites have built a little plank off of the nose. They're, "Ooh, we're just going to jump onto the nose." They're just ready.
Tommy Metz III:
It's like a HOV lane.
Pete Wright:
This movie writes itself, is what I'm telling you.
Tommy Metz III:
Oh, we're back to bugs.
Pete Wright:
So yeah-
Tommy Metz III:
Ew, ew.
Pete Wright:
You can get a picture. I'm showing Tom now a diagram. Tom, would you like to try to describe the animation here?
Tommy Metz III:
Sure. First, I'm feeling a little woozy and out of breath. I'm lightheaded. I don't feel good. Lunch is for sure out the window. No. It's like a cartoon of a really close-up of a hair cell coming out of skin. And then there's face bugs inside, eating the yellow... Ugh. Oof.
Pete Wright:
The sebum-
Tommy Metz III:
Oof.
Pete Wright:
That yellow-
Tommy Metz III:
The sebum.
Pete Wright:
... is sebum. They're up against the follicle. And you can see the hair emerging from the skin. But what I love the most is the little wiggly tails coming out of the follicles. And then they come out at night, and that's when they mate. And then they go back in and lay their eggs inside your skin.
Tommy Metz III:
What?
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Tommy Metz III:
This just dialed up.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Tommy Metz III:
They're laying-
Pete Wright:
Tom, I've been thinking about this-
Tommy Metz III:
Don't make it move.
Pete Wright:
... since-
Tommy Metz III:
Don't make it move.
Pete Wright:
... since March, when my wife sent this to me. I can't let go of this.
Tommy Metz III:
What's wrong with your marriage?
Pete Wright:
Here's the other thing: they don't actually seem to have an anus of any sort. It is, if anything, rudimentary. I think they just eat the sebum, and it becomes a part of them. And that's it. I don't know how they get the-
Tommy Metz III:
That's where-
Pete Wright:
... process. They're
Tommy Metz III:
... God drew the line.
Pete Wright:
... incredibly drew the line.
Tommy Metz III:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. That's-
Tommy Metz III:
They're eating-
Pete Wright:
... where he drew the line.
Tommy Metz III:
... on your face, and you give them to babies. But they don't have butts. Great restraint, science. God.
Pete Wright:
So, that's-
Tommy Metz III:
That's-
Pete Wright:
... a face mite.
Tommy Metz III:
... the worst.
Pete Wright:
The mite that lives on your face. And this gets into-
Tommy Metz III:
And it doesn't do anything for us though, even though it's eating oil? I thought that that would be beneficial. And every time that I wash my face, is it like a face mite Holocaust?
Pete Wright:
I guess.
Tommy Metz III:
Can you wash them off?
Pete Wright:
Yeah. I guess guess you wash them off.
Tommy Metz III:
And then-
Pete Wright:
But clearly not all of them.
Tommy Metz III:
... I run outside and touch a baby? Oh boy, oh boy.
Pete Wright:
Because babies are always there, ready to take your face mites and then, I guess, give it back because babies are a real face rub central. Everybody's rubbing the same baby. And in the era of COVID, I think we're more aware. We've already been told, "I think you should probably not be rubbing your face babies, just as much as you should not be licking anything, let alone movie screens and magic eight balls."
Tommy Metz III:
From now, on every time I meet a new baby, I'm going to wipe it down like I used to do to my groceries in the beginning of the pandemic. Sort of vaguely and wondering if it's doing anything.
Pete Wright:
I always have my little Purell wipe right here. I've never opened it.
Tommy Metz III:
Oh.
Pete Wright:
It got-
Tommy Metz III:
That's effective.
Pete Wright:
... [inaudible 00:49:54] some kind of a thing. And I always keep it here just in case. But in case of what? Now I know: it's in case the face mites. Look, here's the thing. Looking at your mites, researchers can usually tell something about your geographical ancestry, what part of the world your ancestors come from, because of your mites on your face. Face mites are definitely the species of animal that we have the closest connection with, as humans, even though most of us don't know about them or ever see one in our lifetime. We still have this very ancient and intimate relationship. And it seems clear that we've had these face mite species with us for all of human history. They are as old as our species, as old as Homo sapien.
Tommy Metz III:
That's the grossest chicken and the egg thing I've ever heard of. That chicken sucks, and that egg sucks.
Pete Wright:
That so sucks. Everything sucks about this experience. That's what I'm telling you. We've been hearing a lot about the, and we've talked about it before, about the fact that we, as human beings, are made up of just a bazillion pounds of other species.
Tommy Metz III:
Things hanging out, yeah.
Pete Wright:
Guts and bacteria and all this stuff, hanging out. And here's one that's actually a face spider living in my pores. And it is a perseverative thought spiral, Tom. I can't let go of it. And I had to give it to you. I think about face mites every time I look in the mirror. I'm brushing my teeth, I have to turn around. I can't look at myself anymore.
Tommy Metz III:
But is it like the movie It Follows? Now that you've told me, can you go on and live your life, and I have to-
Pete Wright:
God, I hope so. That's the-
Tommy Metz III:
It's like the Ring.
Pete Wright:
... reason.
Tommy Metz III:
I have to teach someone else about face mites. And on it goes, and on it goes.
Pete Wright:
I hope to God that's true because I need rid of it. I need rid of it. I don't care for face mites. I think there are all kinds of anxieties in and related to disease, bugs, infections, those sorts of things. I haven't seen one that is a specific anxiety for face mites, but there should probably be one.
Tommy Metz III:
Should we make one up?
Pete Wright:
Yes.
Tommy Metz III:
Fasje visage spider...
Pete Wright:
It's got to be a phobia. Like-
Tommy Metz III:
Oh yeah. Good point.
Pete Wright:
What did I call them? Demodex folliculorum. So-
Tommy Metz III:
Right.
Pete Wright:
Demodex follicula faceaphobia?
Tommy Metz III:
I like that. It's so easy to remember. What a tongue roller. Boy, oh boy. Does this mean-
Pete Wright:
So, that's what-
Tommy Metz III:
... that we should be going around pinching people's cheeks like grandmothers used to do?
Pete Wright:
Well, they don't live in your thumb and finger, I don't think. I think-
Tommy Metz III:
But I think you're-
Pete Wright:
... they're-
Tommy Metz III:
... giving them-
Pete Wright:
... isolated to face.
Tommy Metz III:
... a little squish.
Pete Wright:
You're right.
Tommy Metz III:
Right.
Pete Wright:
This is like the They Live of...
Tommy Metz III:
Well, no.
Pete Wright:
Of face mites.
Tommy Metz III:
That would mean we put on sunglasses that we could see everybody's face mites, and then-
Pete Wright:
And then go squeeze them.
Tommy Metz III:
God
Pete Wright:
Does this... okay, I'm going to go [inaudible 00:52:53]
Tommy Metz III:
"How did you end up in jail, Tom?" "It's a long story."
Pete Wright:
So, when you're you're a kid, and you go in the bathroom, and you have a little zit, and you pop it, and it pops.
Tommy Metz III:
Ew.
Pete Wright:
Now what are you going to think?
Tommy Metz III:
I can-
Pete Wright:
You just destroyed a face mite that was in your pores?
Tommy Metz III:
Well, what if we-
Pete Wright:
It might be-
Tommy Metz III:
... can train-
Pete Wright:
... drowning-
Tommy Metz III:
... our face mites to do that?
Pete Wright:
Oh my goodness.
Tommy Metz III:
If you could train your-
Pete Wright:
Are you going to-
Tommy Metz III:
... face mites-
Pete Wright:
You're going to face mite flea circus.
Tommy Metz III:
I am-
Pete Wright:
That's what's happening-
Tommy Metz III:
... absolutely-
Pete Wright:
... right now.
Tommy Metz III:
I'm going to be like that old guy from Jurassic Park. And that's how I start my entire park. And then, my face mites immediately breach the security zone and eat all the tourists. "Welcome to Folliculorum Park."
Pete Wright:
And it's just really small sounds. (Singing) "Where's that coming from? Oh, my nose."
(singing)
